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That's not at all what this article is saying. It is about Russian warcrimes, something that is clearly worth reporting on. Whether or not removing Qaddafi wa

by enkid 5y ago

That's not at all what this article is saying. It is about Russian warcrimes, something that is clearly worth reporting on. Whether or not removing Qaddafi was a mistake has very little to do with whether BBC should be reporting about the Wagner group killing civilians and prisoners.

NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
As I said here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28140897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28140897 I feel articles like these are our personal propaganda. "Lets blame someone else, while our own war criminals roam free". Tony Blair, Bush, Clinton ... they went into several wars without any approval of UN, made huge destruction, civilian deaths and suffering... and nothing, they live happily ever after ...
- enkid 5y ago
  You are not disagreeing with me. You are just bringing up issues that Western countries have had and saying "don't report about Russian crimes, report about this.". But those things have been reported on and discussed in Western culture since those things happened many times. So no, BBC, a news service, shouldn't rehash a thirty year old argument (Clinton? Really?) when instead of talking about Russian war crimes.
  - NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
    No, I am not disagreeing, I am just fed up with all propaganda, soon I will read Russia is responsible for global warming and Moon rotation. Few years ago we had The Panama Papers, Wiki leaks... huge number of document disclosing, war crimes, offshore banks, money laundering... except Iceland has any country done anything about those individuals? Instead they hunted whistle blowers like a wild animals. So, when someone asked me what are the world wide political system I have one answer - organised mafia aristocracies, everything else is just illusion and PR. Clinton - NATO bombing of Yugoslavia
    - enkid 5y ago
      All your doing is derailing the conversation. Western reaction to whistleblowers has literally nothing to do with Russian war crimes. The bombing of Yugoslavia 25+ years ago has nothing to do with Russian war crimes. Why can't you just accept that this is a valid thing to report on? No is saying the news can't report on that other stuff, but this is clearly worth reporting on, so stop trying to distract or get us to ignore it.
      - NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
        Issue here is that you have narrow minded thinking, you are focused to one thing and you cannot attach anything that has any other association, and as such it is easy to manipulate you, and everyone else whom governments needs to approve more military spending for future wars in some foreign country for the sake of oil and gold (e.g protecting our economic interests) and with excuse of protecting democracy and giving better life to those people.
      - mr_overalls 5y ago
        Just FYI, you are most likely arguing with a Russian bot or paid propagandist.
lmilcin 5y ago
That's not what the parent said. The parent did not see problem in reporting, only in selective reporting. He did not say Russia did not do it, just that we blame Russia for all of it. The "war on terrorism" has its roots in US trying to get hold of the oil that happened to be present in those otherwise unremarkable countries. For whatever reason US interest in "helping out" a country is correlated a lot with whether the country has oil or not. Now the fallout of all this shady stuff that happened is a bunch of unhappy people that turned to terrorism with... drumrolls... help of people that were directly paid by US government. Looking as a bystander it is really difficult to sympathize with US for doing all this and now crying foul when it turns on themselves or when other countries like Russia try to do similar.
- enkid 5y ago
  And that has been reported on a million times in Western media. Why would any of this be a reason not to report on Russian war crimes? There is no reason. It just distracts.
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    No, it is not reason to not report on Russian crimes. I believe all crimes should be reported. Just don't try to pin all blame on the other side when you share in it.
  - mauriciolange 5y ago
    Actually reporting on what Russia does or not does is to distract from what NATO is doing.
roenxi 5y ago
Sure, but if there is going to be intellectually honest talk about problems in Libya then we should ... well. I suppose we might speculate that, possibly, hypothetically, the reason the Russians are committing war crimes in Libya is because the Libyan army was annihilated around 2011 by a helpful excursion by US/UK/etc troops onto Libyan soil. The BBC article manages to go through 10 years of history here and appears to have missed the NATO invasion.
- enkid 5y ago
  The BBC article doesn't talk about history at all. It's reporting on crimes that are currently being committed. Stop distracting from Russian war crimes.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    Down the bottom, they have a little "Libya - a decade of turmoil" heading. If we want to stop war crimes happening, NATO should hire me as an adviser. I could set them on the right path pretty quick with some simple observations: Invading a country doesn't make it more prosperous! Sometimes it makes things worse! All of the invasions in the Middle Eastern region have led to war crimes happening and it is a consistent pattern! Stop with the troops and the missiles! But they won't hire me because they already know all that. Everyone knows.
    - avmich 5y ago
      It's better not to start wars, and sometimes troops need to stay, but a bad peace is better than a good war, so recent American withdrawal from Middle East could be overall good in the long run. We can remember Churchill, with his "Americans will always do the right thing, after trying all others", but things still go to the right direction.
- whoaisme 5y ago
  Yeah yeah yeah. Intellectual honesty is only honest when the usa is being trashed. Intellectual honesty is playing the Russia is always the victim even when we admit the Russians are committing war crimes it's really the fault of the USA. Your muppets are the worst. If you're so insistent on thinking like a slave have the courtesy to keep your mouth shut like a slave too
newsclues 5y ago
If the Crips are keeping the hood safe, then the police bust them and the Bloods take over and disrespect everyone in the community, perhaps the police should not have left a power vacuum!

by enkid 5y ago

NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago

As I said here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28140897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28140897 I feel articles like these are our personal propaganda. "Lets blame someone else, while our own war criminals roam free". Tony Blair, Bush, Clinton ... they went into several wars without any approval of UN, made huge destruction, civilian deaths and suffering... and nothing, they live happily ever after ...

enkid 5y ago
You are not disagreeing with me. You are just bringing up issues that Western countries have had and saying "don't report about Russian crimes, report about this.". But those things have been reported on and discussed in Western culture since those things happened many times. So no, BBC, a news service, shouldn't rehash a thirty year old argument (Clinton? Really?) when instead of talking about Russian war crimes.
- NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
  No, I am not disagreeing, I am just fed up with all propaganda, soon I will read Russia is responsible for global warming and Moon rotation. Few years ago we had The Panama Papers, Wiki leaks... huge number of document disclosing, war crimes, offshore banks, money laundering... except Iceland has any country done anything about those individuals? Instead they hunted whistle blowers like a wild animals. So, when someone asked me what are the world wide political system I have one answer - organised mafia aristocracies, everything else is just illusion and PR. Clinton - NATO bombing of Yugoslavia
  - enkid 5y ago
    All your doing is derailing the conversation. Western reaction to whistleblowers has literally nothing to do with Russian war crimes. The bombing of Yugoslavia 25+ years ago has nothing to do with Russian war crimes. Why can't you just accept that this is a valid thing to report on? No is saying the news can't report on that other stuff, but this is clearly worth reporting on, so stop trying to distract or get us to ignore it.
    - NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
      Issue here is that you have narrow minded thinking, you are focused to one thing and you cannot attach anything that has any other association, and as such it is easy to manipulate you, and everyone else whom governments needs to approve more military spending for future wars in some foreign country for the sake of oil and gold (e.g protecting our economic interests) and with excuse of protecting democracy and giving better life to those people.
    - mr_overalls 5y ago
      Just FYI, you are most likely arguing with a Russian bot or paid propagandist.

lmilcin 5y ago

That's not what the parent said. The parent did not see problem in reporting, only in selective reporting. He did not say Russia did not do it, just that we blame Russia for all of it. The "war on terrorism" has its roots in US trying to get hold of the oil that happened to be present in those otherwise unremarkable countries. For whatever reason US interest in "helping out" a country is correlated a lot with whether the country has oil or not. Now the fallout of all this shady stuff that happened is a bunch of unhappy people that turned to terrorism with... drumrolls... help of people that were directly paid by US government. Looking as a bystander it is really difficult to sympathize with US for doing all this and now crying foul when it turns on themselves or when other countries like Russia try to do similar.

enkid 5y ago
And that has been reported on a million times in Western media. Why would any of this be a reason not to report on Russian war crimes? There is no reason. It just distracts.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  No, it is not reason to not report on Russian crimes. I believe all crimes should be reported. Just don't try to pin all blame on the other side when you share in it.
- mauriciolange 5y ago
  Actually reporting on what Russia does or not does is to distract from what NATO is doing.

roenxi 5y ago

Sure, but if there is going to be intellectually honest talk about problems in Libya then we should ... well. I suppose we might speculate that, possibly, hypothetically, the reason the Russians are committing war crimes in Libya is because the Libyan army was annihilated around 2011 by a helpful excursion by US/UK/etc troops onto Libyan soil. The BBC article manages to go through 10 years of history here and appears to have missed the NATO invasion.

enkid 5y ago
The BBC article doesn't talk about history at all. It's reporting on crimes that are currently being committed. Stop distracting from Russian war crimes.
- roenxi 5y ago
  Down the bottom, they have a little "Libya - a decade of turmoil" heading. If we want to stop war crimes happening, NATO should hire me as an adviser. I could set them on the right path pretty quick with some simple observations: Invading a country doesn't make it more prosperous! Sometimes it makes things worse! All of the invasions in the Middle Eastern region have led to war crimes happening and it is a consistent pattern! Stop with the troops and the missiles! But they won't hire me because they already know all that. Everyone knows.
  - avmich 5y ago
    It's better not to start wars, and sometimes troops need to stay, but a bad peace is better than a good war, so recent American withdrawal from Middle East could be overall good in the long run. We can remember Churchill, with his "Americans will always do the right thing, after trying all others", but things still go to the right direction.
whoaisme 5y ago
Yeah yeah yeah. Intellectual honesty is only honest when the usa is being trashed. Intellectual honesty is playing the Russia is always the victim even when we admit the Russians are committing war crimes it's really the fault of the USA. Your muppets are the worst. If you're so insistent on thinking like a slave have the courtesy to keep your mouth shut like a slave too

newsclues 5y ago

If the Crips are keeping the hood safe, then the police bust them and the Bloods take over and disrespect everyone in the community, perhaps the police should not have left a power vacuum!