7 ms·
The Persians are always asked to "westernize". Let's learn from them, too!
by geff82 5y ago
The Persians are always asked to "westernize". Let's learn from them, too!
- fsloth 5y agoLots of pre-industrial science and mathematics have been done in Persia. E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Musa_al-Khwarizmi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Musa_al-Khwarizmi (the dude called "Algorithm" was Persian)
- ajuc 5y agoYep and then they decided religion is more important than science and stagnated to modern day... There's a lesson there.
- fsloth 5y agoWell, it's not that linear. While renaissance started to steamroll west into the scientific future while the world of Islam stagnated, the story of Iran is far more complex than that of a continuous medieval theocracy which the brief statement above suggests (intended or not). Before 1979 coup Iran was a more or less secular modern state and not a theocracy. But it was destablized before that by the 1959 coup backed by UK and US interests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran
- ajuc 5y agoIt wasn't a theocracy but it also wasn't anywhere close to the scientific powerhouse it was historically.
- nobodyandproud 5y agoWhich doesn’t mean it couldn’t have become one again. As an outsider (non-Persian) I feel Iran would have been evolved into an interesting ally for the US in the long term, if we hadn’t meddled in their affairs all those years ago.
- Solstinox 5y agoIronically simplifying it like you just did is one of the contributors to the diminished reverence for science in that part of the world. There was a famous and nuanced published discourse between a philosopher named Al Ghazali and Averroes (Ibn Rushd) on the merits and failures of knowledge. The observers of the discourse basically warped it into science vs. religion battle and as with all things with binary fanbases one school of thought had to prevail over the other. The delicate harmony between religion and knowledge shattered. As the Middle East has learned and continues to learn the dangers of the spiritual ungrounded by knowledge, the West is now learning the dangers of knowledge unelevated by the spiritual.
- ajuc 5y ago> the West is now learning the dangers of knowledge unelevated by the spiritual Such as? Cause from where I stand it seems science is trying to save the world from global warming and spiritual leaders are busy protecting oil money and denying there's any danger :) All the talk about "spiritual balance" eventually ends with "hate gays, oppress women, endorse slavery, kill nonbelievers". If that's the benefits of spiritual balance then good riddance.
- fsloth 5y agoNot that I consider you to be entirely wrong - but I suppose it depends on the definition of the spiritual tradition. I am a non-expert on the topic, but I think for example Native-American spiritual tradition has always considered industrial scale modification of the natural environment as a bad thing.
- _Algernon_ 5y agoIf you credit science with "trying to save the world" from climate change, you also need to blame it for causing it in the first place. But it doesn't sound as impressive to solve a problem you caused in the first place, does it?
- fsloth 5y agoScience has been aware of the potential of increased CO2 emissions to cause heating of the atmosphere and hence global warming for a century. You can thank capital and politics not heeding this until now when the "risks" are becoming realities. Special prize for energy companies for funding skepticism towards climate science because it was obvious 40 years ago that most of the oil we've dug out and burned really should have not been.
- geraneum 5y agoPersians were pretty religious (Zoroastrianism, etc.) in the ancient days too. It was just not Islam. And the way Persia has changed and evolved and what has happened there goes beyond the simple "they decided religion is more important".