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I don't think people are saying it'll get worse, but rather that it's already bad, and over time we'll learn to what extent that is. If you know that and conti

I don't think people are saying it'll get worse, but rather that it's already bad, and over time we'll learn to what extent that is. If you know that and continue to use it, thats fine. I still used Facebook long after all the malarky about that came out (and as is this case, a lot of people, myself included, were already seeing the signs of it way before it came out). You need to pick your battles, in a world where everyone has their no #1 important issue you MUST act on, you need to decide where you can spare the mental energy. But denying it because you want to have your cake and eat it too probably isn't healthy

romwell 5y ago
"Bad" is a very vague term. The claim I specifically disagree with is that TikTok currently actively deplatforms LGBTQ+ and disabled people. It simply was the opposite of my experience, as my suggested videos are at least 90% LGBTQ or disabled people. I can't even compare it to other social networks, as it gives these "vulnerable" demographics an incredibly large reach today — even with the alleged censorship — and nothing else comes even close! —Your car is bad, it has no seatbelts and airbags —But the other cars I can get don't even run! —Why don't you agree that it's a bad car? –Because it can get me places the other cars don't —So you think that no airbags is good? —No, I thinking that a driveable car without airbags is better for me than the stationary car that has them. It's good for me to have this car, my life improved after I got it. I use it to get to my friends that live far away. —But what about those kids that took a car for a joy ride and crashed it? —Perhaps they should not have been driving —But it's a Chinese car, it spies on you! —I have to use it to reach my friends because there's no other way —So you're denying that your car will be junk in a few years? It's not healthy! —Neither is worrying about potentially grim future —But it'll be worth nothing soon! —And by that time, I'll get its worth by other means
- deleted 5y ago
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- bodge5000 5y ago
  Bad is a vague term, I thought we were talking about data privacy and such whereas it seems you're talking about deplatforming. My mistake there, although I would say that, especially in the context of data privacy, you probably want to avoid bad things happening. The car analogy doesn't really work, because you don't seem to be saying "TikTok is terrible but its the best we've got". In fact, you seem to be being quite combative with others when they say something along the lines of "TikTok is terrible", which oddly enough, is kind of negative itself. But maybe I'm just misreading things, emotion can be harder to decipher through text, so I suppose only you can know.
  - romwell 5y ago
    Indeed, I was talking about deplatforming because that's what the comment I responded to brought up. Privacy-wise... OK, I'm an ex-FAANG, and that ship has sailed long ago. My cynical view is that TikTok is far down the line of entities that collect all the same data. As for the car analogy, yes, this was exactly what I was trying to say; apologies for lack of clarity. I was arguing with others who were saying "TikTok is juts as bad as all the others, and if it's not, it will be", which is an empty statement. I'd switch to a privacy-conscious alternative in a heartbeat, and my point is that there is none, by a long shot. And that's the thing. If you care about the downsides of TikTok, you better understand why the users go there instead of other platforms that are ostensibly "just the same". Facebook didn't grow because it was "same" as MySpace; and everyone missing the difference is why Facebook is the giant it is today. I'm trying to explain the value users derive from TikTok that other platforms don't provide. Specifically as a member of the "vulnerable" groups on TikTok. I am bringing here a perspective that the person speaking on my behalf clearly doesn't have, being neither a TikTok user, nor, it seems, a member of any of these groups. The discourse here reached a point of gaslighting where people are convincing me that I'm being "exploited" when I point out that out.
    - bodge5000 5y ago
      Deplatforming isn't really my wheelhouse so I'll stay out of that one, there are plenty of intelligent people on both sides of the coin who do understand the issue to the point where there isn't much value in my chipping in. As for data privacy, you make a fair point. As I said in an earlier comment, despite my misgivings about their "take everything that isnt bolted down" approach, I continued to use Facebook even after the big hoo-ha because, like TikTok does for you, it brought me value. The only thing I would take issue with is if someone who did get value from one of those platforms and wanted to keep their privacy high ground by denying any issues, but as you've made clear, your not that person, so we can safely dismiss that now. > And that's the thing. If you care about the downsides of TikTok, you better understand why the users go there To be fair, this is an excellent point, and not just in the context of social media. Too often in politics for example you see peoples explanation for why the people they disagree with do and say the things they do and say is "that group are idiots/ignorant/evil, my group is intelligent/enlightened/kind". So you'll get no argument from me there. Overall, I think this was just a bit of a miscommunication and we're actually coming from roughly the same place. I can't say I'm a big fan of TikTok, but you would probably think the same thing about Facebook or Google (I don't use facebook anymore but google still have their claws around me), so it'd be hypocritical for either of us to try to take the highground.

romwell 5y ago

"Bad" is a very vague term. The claim I specifically disagree with is that TikTok currently actively deplatforms LGBTQ+ and disabled people. It simply was the opposite of my experience, as my suggested videos are at least 90% LGBTQ or disabled people. I can't even compare it to other social networks, as it gives these "vulnerable" demographics an incredibly large reach today — even with the alleged censorship — and nothing else comes even close! —Your car is bad, it has no seatbelts and airbags —But the other cars I can get don't even run! —Why don't you agree that it's a bad car? –Because it can get me places the other cars don't —So you think that no airbags is good? —No, I thinking that a driveable car without airbags is better for me than the stationary car that has them. It's good for me to have this car, my life improved after I got it. I use it to get to my friends that live far away. —But what about those kids that took a car for a joy ride and crashed it? —Perhaps they should not have been driving —But it's a Chinese car, it spies on you! —I have to use it to reach my friends because there's no other way —So you're denying that your car will be junk in a few years? It's not healthy! —Neither is worrying about potentially grim future —But it'll be worth nothing soon! —And by that time, I'll get its worth by other means

deleted 5y ago
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bodge5000 5y ago
Bad is a vague term, I thought we were talking about data privacy and such whereas it seems you're talking about deplatforming. My mistake there, although I would say that, especially in the context of data privacy, you probably want to avoid bad things happening. The car analogy doesn't really work, because you don't seem to be saying "TikTok is terrible but its the best we've got". In fact, you seem to be being quite combative with others when they say something along the lines of "TikTok is terrible", which oddly enough, is kind of negative itself. But maybe I'm just misreading things, emotion can be harder to decipher through text, so I suppose only you can know.
- romwell 5y ago
  Indeed, I was talking about deplatforming because that's what the comment I responded to brought up. Privacy-wise... OK, I'm an ex-FAANG, and that ship has sailed long ago. My cynical view is that TikTok is far down the line of entities that collect all the same data. As for the car analogy, yes, this was exactly what I was trying to say; apologies for lack of clarity. I was arguing with others who were saying "TikTok is juts as bad as all the others, and if it's not, it will be", which is an empty statement. I'd switch to a privacy-conscious alternative in a heartbeat, and my point is that there is none, by a long shot. And that's the thing. If you care about the downsides of TikTok, you better understand why the users go there instead of other platforms that are ostensibly "just the same". Facebook didn't grow because it was "same" as MySpace; and everyone missing the difference is why Facebook is the giant it is today. I'm trying to explain the value users derive from TikTok that other platforms don't provide. Specifically as a member of the "vulnerable" groups on TikTok. I am bringing here a perspective that the person speaking on my behalf clearly doesn't have, being neither a TikTok user, nor, it seems, a member of any of these groups. The discourse here reached a point of gaslighting where people are convincing me that I'm being "exploited" when I point out that out.
  - bodge5000 5y ago
    Deplatforming isn't really my wheelhouse so I'll stay out of that one, there are plenty of intelligent people on both sides of the coin who do understand the issue to the point where there isn't much value in my chipping in. As for data privacy, you make a fair point. As I said in an earlier comment, despite my misgivings about their "take everything that isnt bolted down" approach, I continued to use Facebook even after the big hoo-ha because, like TikTok does for you, it brought me value. The only thing I would take issue with is if someone who did get value from one of those platforms and wanted to keep their privacy high ground by denying any issues, but as you've made clear, your not that person, so we can safely dismiss that now. > And that's the thing. If you care about the downsides of TikTok, you better understand why the users go there To be fair, this is an excellent point, and not just in the context of social media. Too often in politics for example you see peoples explanation for why the people they disagree with do and say the things they do and say is "that group are idiots/ignorant/evil, my group is intelligent/enlightened/kind". So you'll get no argument from me there. Overall, I think this was just a bit of a miscommunication and we're actually coming from roughly the same place. I can't say I'm a big fan of TikTok, but you would probably think the same thing about Facebook or Google (I don't use facebook anymore but google still have their claws around me), so it'd be hypocritical for either of us to try to take the highground.