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Let me pose a different question. What value does the following claim bring into the discussion: "The <new thing that you like> is going to be just as bad as <

Let me pose a different question. What value does the following claim bring into the discussion: "The <new thing that you like> is going to be just as bad as <other things>, just give it time"? It's just needless negativity. There are so many interesting things about TikTok that one can discuss, and choosing to just be a Debbie Downer about it ("You like it, but it's bad for you!") feel like an extremely boring way to think about anything.

_Algernon_ 5y ago
A pattern that has occurred repeatedly with many SoMe companies over the last decade is highly relevant to a discussion about the new SoMe company that allegedly solves all the problems of previous social media. It's not just needless negativity.
hutzlibu 5y ago
Well, to me it sounds like: "Yeah, it showed that all the old chemical party drugs are bad in the long run, but this new party drug makes you feel really good, so why worry about the future?" I mean do it, if you want. But I also have the opinion that I do not want to base my happiness and wellbeing in something that has shown to have a short timed luck - followed by darkness. And I do not see society benefitting. When I watch my young nephews as mindless TikTok zombies - I do not see them happy really. They are occupied. But happy? I see them happy, when they do real kids stuff - running around, jumping, fighting, doing stupid things. Also gaming together. And if they watch some videos - why not. But they seem just addicted to me already. It is all about a healthy balance - and those "social media apps" have the goal to maximize engagement - that means addiction and not a healthy balance.
- romwell 5y ago
  Well perhaps your nephews aren't in the group of people who should be on TikTok. That doesn't mean that it's like that for everyone. Drug analogy: people use Adderall as a party drug too, but some really benefit from having it in their day-to-day life. Nobody said anything about "basing happiness and wellbeing" on TikTok, btw. It's a strawman claim. What TikTok does is it connects people who wouldn't otherwise know of each other, lets many people interact with videos, and just be themselves. It's a good place to be at today. What it already has done is it normalized people just sharing their slices of life and thoughts instead of creating highly polished content (which also exists). And the interactions are peer-to-peer. It has the most Wen 1.0 vibe of yore out of all platforms. Except instead of ugly HTML with <blink> tags, it's your messy bedroom and untamed hair. But it's yours.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    "But it's yours." It is not. You do not own or controll the data on it. You do not know, own or control the algorithm that makes TikTok such an amazing experience for you - at the moment. An proprietary algorithm that can change any minute, out of whatever reasons - may them be just "profit" motives, or political reasons (China is a bit famous for that). "Nobody said anything about "basing happiness and wellbeing" on TikTok, btw. It's a strawman claim." And sure nobody say he is doing it consciously. But this is what I observe is happening to quite some, especially young people. They get very angry, if the do not get their mobiles to get their dose of TikTok. So yeah, drugs can be beneficial, too. Dosis facit venenum. This is my point: to me from the outside - TikTok seems to be just the same. A new addictive drug. That can be beneficial if used moderately, but mostly is not.
    - romwell 5y ago
      The positive experience I have on a platform, the people I connect with, the things I learn — all of that is mine, and no change in algorithm can take that away. I am also giving you a perspective as one of those "vulnerable" populations ostensibly harmed by TikTok, which is what the comment I responded to claimed. I am saying, as one of them, that TikTok gave these "vulnerable" something that other platforms don't. I won't go into ”addiction” issues (if you were to take my books away when I was a kid, I'd get no less angry), I'll just accept that it's an issue for large groups of people. My point was that TikTok is more than that (addictive entertainment). It saves lives too. Again, I am giving you a perspective as a "vulnerable" user of the platform. This is a perspective that you do not have (as a non-user at the very least). I don't doubt that other people will have a different experience. After all, that's the entire point of having that algorithm. What I am saying is that TikTok is #1 not only because it's an addictive fun machine for some. There's a lot more. A sense of community for "vulnerable" groups and the ability to have reach is one of those positives that the parent comment was clearly not aware of.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        > I am saying, as one of them, that TikTok gave these "vulnerable" something that other platforms don't. I have been incredibly disappointed by the queer presence on TikTok. Most of the people who I watched seemed misinformed, or were trying to sell me something. The shorter length of the medium encourages sensationalized media rather than longer, more reasoned takes. Furthermore, there's not a single worse place for vulnerable communities to exist than a Chinese app. China has demonstrated, at length, that they intend to oppress their queer population, Uighur population, Taiwanese population, student population and anyone who opposes them politically. As a queer person myself, I couldn't imagine a less comfortable platform if I tried. TikTok feels like a clinical exposure to queer identity, stripped of passion and packaged as a shiny toy. It's demeaning and degrading. > My point was that TikTok is more than that (addictive entertainment). It saves lives too. I think every social media platform of a certain size has "saved a life" before. I remember hanging out in an IRC chat with people who I used to drink with, and we had to call 911 for someone who had alcohol poisoning. There was only like 30-40 members, so "life saving" can really happen on any platform. Communities can happen anywhere, too: you just need passionate people to drive them. I hope in the future there will be less corrupt/centralized alternatives, if you feel that this medium is particularly helpful for you.
mbesto 5y ago
> There are so many interesting things about TikTok that one can discuss, and choosing to just be a Debbie Downer about it ("You like it, but it's bad for you!") feel like an extremely boring way to think about anything. Oddly enough, I find comments like "I don't care to talk about any negativity because this product/service is the best thing since slice bread" boring as well. What's your point? You seem to be getting unnecessarily upset that people are raining on your parade. No one is raining on your parade, they're simply providing a counterpoint - no need to take that any farther than what it is.
- romwell 5y ago
  I'm trying to make a simple statement: the claim that TikTok is the same as other platforms is idiotic (if it were so, it wouldn't reach the #1 spot in spite of not being around a few years ago). Logic dictates that TikTok must be doing something differently, and doing it right. I am trying to explain what that something is. I am upset because as long as people here don't get what makes TikTok unique and successful, there will be no US-made alternative to TikTok. Which sucks, because it is a Chinese spying/influence machine too. Exhibit 1: Instagram, which is now imitating TikTok, poorly, with it's video feed. Literally all content I see there is TikTok reposts. Exhibit 2: YouTube's... whatever. Dead in the water. Facebook and Google don't get it. HackerNews doesn't get it. And as long as that goes on, y'all are just handing our youth off to the PRC's influence. Did I make my point clear? I hope I made my comment negative enough for your preference, but I'll be glad to elaborate.
  - mbesto 5y ago
    > Exhibit 1: Instagram, which is now imitating TikTok, poorly, with it's video feed. Literally all content I see there is TikTok reposts. Anecdata? > YouTube's... whatever. Dead in the water. Lol what? YT is still growing and has 2.3B users... https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/ > Did I make my point clear? You did. > Facebook and Google don't get it. HackerNews doesn't get it. We do. You're just not understanding OUR point. People are not disagreeing that there is somehow a better/unique experience on TikTok - in fact the opposite, most people here believe that to be true. We're saying that there is a very CLEAR trend when it comes to social media apps. In fact you said it yourself "YouTube and Instagram are crap now". The parent's original premise was that we are in a honeymoon phase with TikTok and all of the ills associated with the other social media platforms will very likely plague TikTok eventually. Worse, TikTok is heavily influenced by a regime well known for abuse that pales in comparison to civil liberties to that of the US/Facebook. In essence, this is a recipe for disaster. > I hope I made my comment negative enough for your preference, but I'll be glad to elaborate. Your insistent deflection and "poor me" attitude doesn't help your argument...worse, it makes me think you're a shill.

_Algernon_ 5y ago

A pattern that has occurred repeatedly with many SoMe companies over the last decade is highly relevant to a discussion about the new SoMe company that allegedly solves all the problems of previous social media. It's not just needless negativity.

hutzlibu 5y ago

Well, to me it sounds like: "Yeah, it showed that all the old chemical party drugs are bad in the long run, but this new party drug makes you feel really good, so why worry about the future?" I mean do it, if you want. But I also have the opinion that I do not want to base my happiness and wellbeing in something that has shown to have a short timed luck - followed by darkness. And I do not see society benefitting. When I watch my young nephews as mindless TikTok zombies - I do not see them happy really. They are occupied. But happy? I see them happy, when they do real kids stuff - running around, jumping, fighting, doing stupid things. Also gaming together. And if they watch some videos - why not. But they seem just addicted to me already. It is all about a healthy balance - and those "social media apps" have the goal to maximize engagement - that means addiction and not a healthy balance.

romwell 5y ago
Well perhaps your nephews aren't in the group of people who should be on TikTok. That doesn't mean that it's like that for everyone. Drug analogy: people use Adderall as a party drug too, but some really benefit from having it in their day-to-day life. Nobody said anything about "basing happiness and wellbeing" on TikTok, btw. It's a strawman claim. What TikTok does is it connects people who wouldn't otherwise know of each other, lets many people interact with videos, and just be themselves. It's a good place to be at today. What it already has done is it normalized people just sharing their slices of life and thoughts instead of creating highly polished content (which also exists). And the interactions are peer-to-peer. It has the most Wen 1.0 vibe of yore out of all platforms. Except instead of ugly HTML with <blink> tags, it's your messy bedroom and untamed hair. But it's yours.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "But it's yours." It is not. You do not own or controll the data on it. You do not know, own or control the algorithm that makes TikTok such an amazing experience for you - at the moment. An proprietary algorithm that can change any minute, out of whatever reasons - may them be just "profit" motives, or political reasons (China is a bit famous for that). "Nobody said anything about "basing happiness and wellbeing" on TikTok, btw. It's a strawman claim." And sure nobody say he is doing it consciously. But this is what I observe is happening to quite some, especially young people. They get very angry, if the do not get their mobiles to get their dose of TikTok. So yeah, drugs can be beneficial, too. Dosis facit venenum. This is my point: to me from the outside - TikTok seems to be just the same. A new addictive drug. That can be beneficial if used moderately, but mostly is not.
  - romwell 5y ago
    The positive experience I have on a platform, the people I connect with, the things I learn — all of that is mine, and no change in algorithm can take that away. I am also giving you a perspective as one of those "vulnerable" populations ostensibly harmed by TikTok, which is what the comment I responded to claimed. I am saying, as one of them, that TikTok gave these "vulnerable" something that other platforms don't. I won't go into ”addiction” issues (if you were to take my books away when I was a kid, I'd get no less angry), I'll just accept that it's an issue for large groups of people. My point was that TikTok is more than that (addictive entertainment). It saves lives too. Again, I am giving you a perspective as a "vulnerable" user of the platform. This is a perspective that you do not have (as a non-user at the very least). I don't doubt that other people will have a different experience. After all, that's the entire point of having that algorithm. What I am saying is that TikTok is #1 not only because it's an addictive fun machine for some. There's a lot more. A sense of community for "vulnerable" groups and the ability to have reach is one of those positives that the parent comment was clearly not aware of.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      > I am saying, as one of them, that TikTok gave these "vulnerable" something that other platforms don't. I have been incredibly disappointed by the queer presence on TikTok. Most of the people who I watched seemed misinformed, or were trying to sell me something. The shorter length of the medium encourages sensationalized media rather than longer, more reasoned takes. Furthermore, there's not a single worse place for vulnerable communities to exist than a Chinese app. China has demonstrated, at length, that they intend to oppress their queer population, Uighur population, Taiwanese population, student population and anyone who opposes them politically. As a queer person myself, I couldn't imagine a less comfortable platform if I tried. TikTok feels like a clinical exposure to queer identity, stripped of passion and packaged as a shiny toy. It's demeaning and degrading. > My point was that TikTok is more than that (addictive entertainment). It saves lives too. I think every social media platform of a certain size has "saved a life" before. I remember hanging out in an IRC chat with people who I used to drink with, and we had to call 911 for someone who had alcohol poisoning. There was only like 30-40 members, so "life saving" can really happen on any platform. Communities can happen anywhere, too: you just need passionate people to drive them. I hope in the future there will be less corrupt/centralized alternatives, if you feel that this medium is particularly helpful for you.

mbesto 5y ago

> There are so many interesting things about TikTok that one can discuss, and choosing to just be a Debbie Downer about it ("You like it, but it's bad for you!") feel like an extremely boring way to think about anything. Oddly enough, I find comments like "I don't care to talk about any negativity because this product/service is the best thing since slice bread" boring as well. What's your point? You seem to be getting unnecessarily upset that people are raining on your parade. No one is raining on your parade, they're simply providing a counterpoint - no need to take that any farther than what it is.

romwell 5y ago
I'm trying to make a simple statement: the claim that TikTok is the same as other platforms is idiotic (if it were so, it wouldn't reach the #1 spot in spite of not being around a few years ago). Logic dictates that TikTok must be doing something differently, and doing it right. I am trying to explain what that something is. I am upset because as long as people here don't get what makes TikTok unique and successful, there will be no US-made alternative to TikTok. Which sucks, because it is a Chinese spying/influence machine too. Exhibit 1: Instagram, which is now imitating TikTok, poorly, with it's video feed. Literally all content I see there is TikTok reposts. Exhibit 2: YouTube's... whatever. Dead in the water. Facebook and Google don't get it. HackerNews doesn't get it. And as long as that goes on, y'all are just handing our youth off to the PRC's influence. Did I make my point clear? I hope I made my comment negative enough for your preference, but I'll be glad to elaborate.
- mbesto 5y ago
  > Exhibit 1: Instagram, which is now imitating TikTok, poorly, with it's video feed. Literally all content I see there is TikTok reposts. Anecdata? > YouTube's... whatever. Dead in the water. Lol what? YT is still growing and has 2.3B users... https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/ > Did I make my point clear? You did. > Facebook and Google don't get it. HackerNews doesn't get it. We do. You're just not understanding OUR point. People are not disagreeing that there is somehow a better/unique experience on TikTok - in fact the opposite, most people here believe that to be true. We're saying that there is a very CLEAR trend when it comes to social media apps. In fact you said it yourself "YouTube and Instagram are crap now". The parent's original premise was that we are in a honeymoon phase with TikTok and all of the ills associated with the other social media platforms will very likely plague TikTok eventually. Worse, TikTok is heavily influenced by a regime well known for abuse that pales in comparison to civil liberties to that of the US/Facebook. In essence, this is a recipe for disaster. > I hope I made my comment negative enough for your preference, but I'll be glad to elaborate. Your insistent deflection and "poor me" attitude doesn't help your argument...worse, it makes me think you're a shill.