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What real/perceived security risk is AU dealing with to justify all these legal changes? They seem relatively isolated from many of the threats facing the US/EU

What real/perceived security risk is AU dealing with to justify all these legal changes? They seem relatively isolated from many of the threats facing the US/EU west regarding terrorism/extremism. Borders in AU are pretty naturally secured by oceans.

chrisco255 5y ago
If you want a narrative I'm sure someone has woven it for you. It won't be convincing or satisfying to the critical thinker but it will end the conversation nonetheless. And the machine will continue to carry out its program.
a0-prw 5y ago
Oz is part of the 5 eyes. The West in general, but especially the 5 eyes (anglosphere) have been waging an economic and propaganda war on China since Obama "pivoted east". Anti Chinese rhetoric in Oz media and from their politicians has been strident. It is quite possible that the 5 eyes are ramping up methods of internal control in expectation of a war with China.
- shell0x 5y ago
  Australia basically sold everything to China and gave the Darwin harbor away on a lease. The entire economy relies on selling real estate to rich foreign investors, international students, and mining. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-12/why-did-northern-territory-sell-darwin-port-to-china-what-risk/10755720 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-12/why-did-northern-terr... Australia thinks it can control China, but without the influx of Chinese money the place is finished IMO. When I landed at Sydney Airport in 2020, there were ads in Mandarin advertising EU passports for sale.
  - tasogare 5y ago
    Capital plus immigration. I've been in WA a decade ago and I was surprised by the number of ethnic Chinese people everywhere. One day China will just have to push a button to turn the country into one of its province, without any need for war.
    - shell0x 5y ago
      You are not far off. China used Chinese students in Australia as a pawn in geopolitics to support the regime. The previous generation of ethnic Chinese is better integrated, but the new generation is very patriotic and loyal to the communist party. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/hundreds-gather-in-sydney-for-police-heavy-pro-china-rally/7794fa29-563a-4ca5-8e22-bbb35a814a7a https://www.sbs.com.au/news/hundreds-gather-in-sydney-for-po... The West always hoped China would turn into a democracy, but that turned out to be an illusion. As long as maximising profits regardless of the consequences is a priority, this will continue. It's often forgotten that China is and has always been playing the long game where in the West policies can change after the next election.
- rajamaka 5y ago
  As incompetent as Australia's current leadership is, I still have reservations that they would be naive enough to get involved in a war with their greatest trading partner.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    If China gets into war with anyone sizable (in practice, the U.S.), the trade flow will stop anyway. US stayed out of WWI for three years, but American trade with Germany was toast once the British started blocking German ships and ports.
- marcus_holmes 5y ago
  Also don't forget the racism. Aussies in general can be pretty racist, and the Chinese cop it especially. Politicians being "tough" on the Chinese (and then quietly selling off major chunks of Australia to them) seems to be a winning move.
  - partomniscient 5y ago
    The situation is ludicrous isn't it. One of the major agri-businesses sucking the life-system out of Australia (i.e. water out of the Murray-Darling river) is a chinese owned business at the top of the river system. It all depends on your perspective. Some people are more Australian than our politicians, yet they look Chinese. It's a massive melting pot of variations. My opinion now is that the Crown (not the casino) is extracting all the value it can from Australia and then run it into the ground, and the other powers that be are doing it too. If Australia ends up against China in conflict, a lot of people will be tearing themselves apart inside. At the other extreme, a lot of Han Chinese see every other non Han Chinese human as inferior (in varying shades of inferiority). There are a lot of Han Chinese. This is a scary situation. The racism runs in both directions.
    - marcus_holmes 5y ago
      > "The racism runs in both directions." Not only that (which is very true). But some of the more racist Aussies aren't "white Australia" Anglo-Saxons.
- powerapple 5y ago
  I was thinking the same the other day. FB recommended a news article from Australian media yesterday, basically the journalists translated some Chinese text into some negative words in English, and wrote a piece for it, unbelievable. The way I see it is that both China and US do not want to go to war, but they all know there is a possibility you cannot ignore, the media is preparing for it. If you can label your enemy as non-human or evil, you don't have to worry about backslash from your citizen when a war breakout. I strongly feel this is the reason for what is happening now. In a few years, there will be conflicts.
posnet 5y ago
The usual surveillance scapegoats, terrorists, drug dealers, pedophiles. Organized crime used to be the other one, but "foreign state sponsored cyber attacks" are very in vogue at the moment.
- unixhero 5y ago
  To be fair, Australia strangely enough struggles with plenty of organized crime in drug distribution.
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    I won't accept your "to be fair", since it shouldn't be illegal in the first place. Just heavily regulated.
    - unixhero 5y ago
      Importing and distributing or production and distribution of ice aka crystal meth shouldn't be illegal? Australia has been in the middle of an enduring crystal meth-related crisis for what, 20 years?[0] [0], The biggest threat to Australia's future, https://time.com/4737800/meth-australia-ice-crystal-methamphetamine-methylamphetamine/ https://time.com/4737800/meth-australia-ice-crystal-methamph...
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    And Casino operation[0][1] [0]: https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/why-is-james-packer-fronting-an-inquiry-over-crown-s-behaviour-20201005-p561zt.html https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/why-is-james-packe... [1]: https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/fraudulent-scam-crown-faces-new-money-laundering-scandal-20210701-p585xw.html https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/fraudulent-scam-cr...
tomhoward 5y ago
Australia's participation in the "War on Terror" was seen to make it a target, and we were always told about "narrowly thwarted" attacks, though they pretty much always turned out to be deadbeat kids with no idea what they were doing. But that was sufficient to keep the fear level up. As others have said, these days China is held up as the big threat.
Benjamin_Dobell 5y ago
These laws aren't for Australia, they're simply implemented here because we're an easy target (no bill of rights)[1]. The Five Eyes simply want to use Australia to funnel access requests through. > We, the Homeland Security, Public Safety, and Immigration Ministers of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States, stand united in our commitment to protect our citizens from child predators, terrorists, violent extremists and other illicit actors. We are as determined to counter these threats online as we are to counter them in the physical world. We note with disappointment that senior digital industry leaders did not accept our invitation to engage on critical issues regarding the illicit use of online spaces at the 2018 Five Country Ministerial meeting. Nevertheless, we reiterate our determination to work together constructively to ensure our response is commensurate to the gravity of the threat. Our citizens expect online spaces to be safe, and are gravely concerned about illegal and illicit online content, particularly the online sexual exploitation of children. We stand united in affirming that the rule of law can and must prevail online. [2] This was a joint statement made by the Department of Home Affairs around the time Assistance and Access Bill 2018 was being pushed through. [1] https://www.itnews.com.au/news/australia-setting-itself-up-as-five-eyes-weakest-link-512984 https://www.itnews.com.au/news/australia-setting-itself-up-a... [2] https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about-us/our-portfolios/national-security/security-coordination/five-country-ministerial-2018 https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about-us/our-portfolios/natio...
newsclues 5y ago
China.
sumedh 5y ago
> Borders in AU are pretty naturally secured by oceans. There have been few cases of people getting indoctrinated with ISIS videos and then doing terrorist attacks.
- kwere 5y ago
  those are fringe cases, and pretty much 95% of the 0.0001% australian radicalizing can be spotted and monitored

chrisco255 5y ago

If you want a narrative I'm sure someone has woven it for you. It won't be convincing or satisfying to the critical thinker but it will end the conversation nonetheless. And the machine will continue to carry out its program.

a0-prw 5y ago

Oz is part of the 5 eyes. The West in general, but especially the 5 eyes (anglosphere) have been waging an economic and propaganda war on China since Obama "pivoted east". Anti Chinese rhetoric in Oz media and from their politicians has been strident. It is quite possible that the 5 eyes are ramping up methods of internal control in expectation of a war with China.

shell0x 5y ago
Australia basically sold everything to China and gave the Darwin harbor away on a lease. The entire economy relies on selling real estate to rich foreign investors, international students, and mining. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-12/why-did-northern-territory-sell-darwin-port-to-china-what-risk/10755720 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-12/why-did-northern-terr... Australia thinks it can control China, but without the influx of Chinese money the place is finished IMO. When I landed at Sydney Airport in 2020, there were ads in Mandarin advertising EU passports for sale.
- tasogare 5y ago
  Capital plus immigration. I've been in WA a decade ago and I was surprised by the number of ethnic Chinese people everywhere. One day China will just have to push a button to turn the country into one of its province, without any need for war.
  - shell0x 5y ago
    You are not far off. China used Chinese students in Australia as a pawn in geopolitics to support the regime. The previous generation of ethnic Chinese is better integrated, but the new generation is very patriotic and loyal to the communist party. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/hundreds-gather-in-sydney-for-police-heavy-pro-china-rally/7794fa29-563a-4ca5-8e22-bbb35a814a7a https://www.sbs.com.au/news/hundreds-gather-in-sydney-for-po... The West always hoped China would turn into a democracy, but that turned out to be an illusion. As long as maximising profits regardless of the consequences is a priority, this will continue. It's often forgotten that China is and has always been playing the long game where in the West policies can change after the next election.
rajamaka 5y ago
As incompetent as Australia's current leadership is, I still have reservations that they would be naive enough to get involved in a war with their greatest trading partner.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  If China gets into war with anyone sizable (in practice, the U.S.), the trade flow will stop anyway. US stayed out of WWI for three years, but American trade with Germany was toast once the British started blocking German ships and ports.
marcus_holmes 5y ago
Also don't forget the racism. Aussies in general can be pretty racist, and the Chinese cop it especially. Politicians being "tough" on the Chinese (and then quietly selling off major chunks of Australia to them) seems to be a winning move.
- partomniscient 5y ago
  The situation is ludicrous isn't it. One of the major agri-businesses sucking the life-system out of Australia (i.e. water out of the Murray-Darling river) is a chinese owned business at the top of the river system. It all depends on your perspective. Some people are more Australian than our politicians, yet they look Chinese. It's a massive melting pot of variations. My opinion now is that the Crown (not the casino) is extracting all the value it can from Australia and then run it into the ground, and the other powers that be are doing it too. If Australia ends up against China in conflict, a lot of people will be tearing themselves apart inside. At the other extreme, a lot of Han Chinese see every other non Han Chinese human as inferior (in varying shades of inferiority). There are a lot of Han Chinese. This is a scary situation. The racism runs in both directions.
  - marcus_holmes 5y ago
    > "The racism runs in both directions." Not only that (which is very true). But some of the more racist Aussies aren't "white Australia" Anglo-Saxons.
powerapple 5y ago
I was thinking the same the other day. FB recommended a news article from Australian media yesterday, basically the journalists translated some Chinese text into some negative words in English, and wrote a piece for it, unbelievable. The way I see it is that both China and US do not want to go to war, but they all know there is a possibility you cannot ignore, the media is preparing for it. If you can label your enemy as non-human or evil, you don't have to worry about backslash from your citizen when a war breakout. I strongly feel this is the reason for what is happening now. In a few years, there will be conflicts.

posnet 5y ago

The usual surveillance scapegoats, terrorists, drug dealers, pedophiles. Organized crime used to be the other one, but "foreign state sponsored cyber attacks" are very in vogue at the moment.

unixhero 5y ago
To be fair, Australia strangely enough struggles with plenty of organized crime in drug distribution.
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  I won't accept your "to be fair", since it shouldn't be illegal in the first place. Just heavily regulated.
  - unixhero 5y ago
    Importing and distributing or production and distribution of ice aka crystal meth shouldn't be illegal? Australia has been in the middle of an enduring crystal meth-related crisis for what, 20 years?[0] [0], The biggest threat to Australia's future, https://time.com/4737800/meth-australia-ice-crystal-methamphetamine-methylamphetamine/ https://time.com/4737800/meth-australia-ice-crystal-methamph...
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  And Casino operation[0][1] [0]: https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/why-is-james-packer-fronting-an-inquiry-over-crown-s-behaviour-20201005-p561zt.html https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/why-is-james-packe... [1]: https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/fraudulent-scam-crown-faces-new-money-laundering-scandal-20210701-p585xw.html https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/fraudulent-scam-cr...

tomhoward 5y ago

Australia's participation in the "War on Terror" was seen to make it a target, and we were always told about "narrowly thwarted" attacks, though they pretty much always turned out to be deadbeat kids with no idea what they were doing. But that was sufficient to keep the fear level up. As others have said, these days China is held up as the big threat.

Benjamin_Dobell 5y ago

These laws aren't for Australia, they're simply implemented here because we're an easy target (no bill of rights)[1]. The Five Eyes simply want to use Australia to funnel access requests through. > We, the Homeland Security, Public Safety, and Immigration Ministers of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States, stand united in our commitment to protect our citizens from child predators, terrorists, violent extremists and other illicit actors. We are as determined to counter these threats online as we are to counter them in the physical world. We note with disappointment that senior digital industry leaders did not accept our invitation to engage on critical issues regarding the illicit use of online spaces at the 2018 Five Country Ministerial meeting. Nevertheless, we reiterate our determination to work together constructively to ensure our response is commensurate to the gravity of the threat. Our citizens expect online spaces to be safe, and are gravely concerned about illegal and illicit online content, particularly the online sexual exploitation of children. We stand united in affirming that the rule of law can and must prevail online. [2] This was a joint statement made by the Department of Home Affairs around the time Assistance and Access Bill 2018 was being pushed through. [1] https://www.itnews.com.au/news/australia-setting-itself-up-as-five-eyes-weakest-link-512984 https://www.itnews.com.au/news/australia-setting-itself-up-a... [2] https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about-us/our-portfolios/national-security/security-coordination/five-country-ministerial-2018 https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about-us/our-portfolios/natio...

newsclues 5y ago

China.

sumedh 5y ago

> Borders in AU are pretty naturally secured by oceans. There have been few cases of people getting indoctrinated with ISIS videos and then doing terrorist attacks.

kwere 5y ago
those are fringe cases, and pretty much 95% of the 0.0001% australian radicalizing can be spotted and monitored