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"Given that all vaccination is immediately available to all citizens, it is no longer justifiable that the federal government and therefore taxpayers cover the

"Given that all vaccination is immediately available to all citizens, it is no longer justifiable that the federal government and therefore taxpayers cover the cost of all tests." The vaccine is also paid with taxpayer money and it is a personal decision to get vaccinated. The STIKO does not currently recommend the vaccine for pregnant or breastfeeding mothers. This reads like nothing but an attempt to put pressure on certain hesitant groups or maybe covering for the fact that the vaccines don't seem to be as effective as initially advertised to the laymen when it comes to the reduction of contagion risk.

martin_a 5y ago
Sometimes the state has to act for the greater good of everybody. Also there are long-existing rules for required vaccinations for children or if you plan to travel abroad. Nobody talks about that. This whole discussion is just some right-wing talking shit, stirring up uninformed people. To add something (more) useful: The vaccination will with very high chance prevent you from getting a serious case and therefore saving/keeping free resources in hospitals and immense costs for emergency care or prevent you from dying. Hundreds of millions of people are vaccinated around the earth. There's not a significant amount of people that have died because of the vaccination or did even have any serious complications. Most of the "complications" or just what you would expect if your body is having an immune reaction: I myself had cold-like symptoms for two days. That's all and that's to be expected. There are very likely no negative "long-term effects" of the vaccination. How should that even work? Vaccination is building anti-bodies to fight a disease, how can there even be any long-term effect?
- s9w 5y ago
  The vax has an effectiveness of 40%, decreasing every day. This is not about health - not one can reasonably believe that anymore.
- TurboHaskal 5y ago
  A proper state would make the vaccine mandatory instead of these lame coercion attempts. With delta, you will not reach anything close to herd immunity unless you vaccine about >=90% of the population. There is limited data on the relative safety of these new vaccines on <12 year olds.
  - rPlayer6554 5y ago
    Mandatory, or what? You go to prison?
    - croes 5y ago
      No shirt, no service
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - rPlayer6554 5y ago
        My question is no service where?
    - TurboHaskal 5y ago
      You get sent to the gulag where they make you code CRUD apps with JavaScript and ever changing frameworks.
      - southerntofu 5y ago
        I assume you also have to pass a CAPTCHA to open your text editor every morning?
        rPlayer6554 5y ago
        Also every time you open the editor it changes a single random number somewhere in your project.
    - martin_a 5y ago
      I think if children are not vaccinated against measles, they're not allowed to go to a public school. That's one example of existing mandatory vaccinations and it's for the greater good of everybody. Nobody cares about that.
- Nemrod67 5y ago
  yes, let's launch a 10-year plan and a Great Leap Forward! Down with people that don't trust the Government! I say Science is with us, let's vaccinate children and force people with cancer to get the Shot before we continue their treatment... /s It's been 20 years since the last time any official media and mainstream political party used logic to analyze anything. Did anyone see that the average life expectancy of the 10% additional boomer population is coming to an end? Wouldn't that give us at least 10% more mortality?
  - croes 5y ago
    you do realize that there had been and are mandatory vaccinations in Germany?
    - Nemrod67 5y ago
      yep, but you can be dispensed if you have a medical condition. And those vaccines have been tested for 5+ years and on the market for 20+. In France we are refusing entry to hospitals for people with frickin cancer, even though we are supposed to vaccinate to protect people who cannot (or at least that was the "Science" up until now). We left logic and science at the door.
cygx 5y ago
The STIKO does not currently recommend the vaccine for pregnant or breastfeeding mothers. And these groups will continue to be able to get tested for free.
rPlayer6554 5y ago
The article says that those who have health conditions that specifically prevent them from taking the vaccine will still get free tests.
lazyjones 5y ago
Of course money is not the issue, it's just a (poor) excuse for increasing the pressure on people who do not wish to get this vaccination. I'd like to see the faces of citizens who support this kind of thing when the government decides that, due to the increased transmissions with the Delta variant even among vaccinated people, paid tests will be required for them too.
ivan_gammel 5y ago
I’m quite certain that this is a coercion of those hesitant groups rather than a conspiracy to cover up anything. Vaccines used in Germany are good enough against Alpha and Beta, but the government was pretty clear about risks coming with Delta, when they added „Virusvariantengebiet“ category for some countries requiring the mandatory quarantine even for vaccinated people (now they are actually less alarmist on this matter).
_ph_ 5y ago
The cost for a shot of vaccine and for a single test are roughly the same. Most people would need 2 shots of vaccine in total, the test needs to be done every day you want to go to a restaurant or participate in a similar activity.
ahartmetz 5y ago
Well, it is probably first an attempt to put pressure on those who don't want to get vaccinated, and second an attempt to save money. I am fine with that. People will not be "forced" to get vaccinated, as was promised. But in practice they will be, which I think is a good thing. Obviously I am pro vaccination and fully vaccinated by now.
- jeofken 5y ago
  Funny how with fully representative democracy, coercion is done passive aggressively
- nwellnhof 5y ago
  > But in practice they will be I fear that in practice, this will divide the pro-vax and anti-vax camps even further. Pressuring, insulting and deriding unvaccinated people will make them even less likely to get the vaccine.
  - ahartmetz 5y ago
    I fear the same. I think doing what needs to be done to get people vaccinated is good, but whether or not it's still a net positive after alienating people like that remains to be seen.
_Microft 5y ago
"STIKO" is the acronym of the "Ständige Impfkommission", or "permanent vaccination commission" as the dictionary translates it. They are the office responsible for recommendation of vaccinations in Germany. A lack of recommendation does not mean that doctors could not vaccinate people anyways. The STIKO has not recommended vaccination of all youths yet (12-17 year old) but only for those at risk for example. Since the vaccines are already approved for that range of age though, some federate states have greenlit doing it in their vaccination centers anyways.
dr_faustus 5y ago
One test costs about as much as one dose of vaccine. So there is a considerably higher cost associated with weekly (or more) testing than with vaccination. Taxpayers (70% of which have now gotten vaccinated) don't have to pay for the luxury of the unvaccinated. Mind you, the government doesn't force you to get tested, btw.. You just can't partake in certain activities if you don't want to spend the money on the tests and don't want to get the vaccine.
- TurboHaskal 5y ago
  You forgot why we are doing these tests (and vaccinating people): It's not about you as an individual. The free tests have been invaluable to prevent contagion (by encouraging self isolation) and predict the eventual saturation of the sanitary system. This also sends the wrong message: That a vaccinated person has a substantial degree of immunity enough and cannot spread the virus, thus being allowed to enter public places without a test. We know this isn't the case.
jonp888 5y ago
> The STIKO does not currently recommend the vaccine for pregnant or breastfeeding mothers. They don't expressly reccomend it, true, but that's because of lack of data, not because they have any reason to think it may cause problems. They say only that each person has to balance the risk of possible of unknown side effects of the vaccine against the consequences of a full-blown Covid infection during preganancy. Pregnant Women can still have the vaccine if they wish. I asked a few doctors about this, and all said they would have no qualms about doing it.
- jansan 5y ago
  The STIKO is the only organization that I currently trust. The have proven to be a stronhold of reason so far.

martin_a 5y ago

Sometimes the state has to act for the greater good of everybody. Also there are long-existing rules for required vaccinations for children or if you plan to travel abroad. Nobody talks about that. This whole discussion is just some right-wing talking shit, stirring up uninformed people. To add something (more) useful: The vaccination will with very high chance prevent you from getting a serious case and therefore saving/keeping free resources in hospitals and immense costs for emergency care or prevent you from dying. Hundreds of millions of people are vaccinated around the earth. There's not a significant amount of people that have died because of the vaccination or did even have any serious complications. Most of the "complications" or just what you would expect if your body is having an immune reaction: I myself had cold-like symptoms for two days. That's all and that's to be expected. There are very likely no negative "long-term effects" of the vaccination. How should that even work? Vaccination is building anti-bodies to fight a disease, how can there even be any long-term effect?

s9w 5y ago
The vax has an effectiveness of 40%, decreasing every day. This is not about health - not one can reasonably believe that anymore.
TurboHaskal 5y ago
A proper state would make the vaccine mandatory instead of these lame coercion attempts. With delta, you will not reach anything close to herd immunity unless you vaccine about >=90% of the population. There is limited data on the relative safety of these new vaccines on <12 year olds.
- rPlayer6554 5y ago
  Mandatory, or what? You go to prison?
  - croes 5y ago
    No shirt, no service
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - rPlayer6554 5y ago
      My question is no service where?
  - TurboHaskal 5y ago
    You get sent to the gulag where they make you code CRUD apps with JavaScript and ever changing frameworks.
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      I assume you also have to pass a CAPTCHA to open your text editor every morning?
      - rPlayer6554 5y ago
        Also every time you open the editor it changes a single random number somewhere in your project.
  - martin_a 5y ago
    I think if children are not vaccinated against measles, they're not allowed to go to a public school. That's one example of existing mandatory vaccinations and it's for the greater good of everybody. Nobody cares about that.
Nemrod67 5y ago
yes, let's launch a 10-year plan and a Great Leap Forward! Down with people that don't trust the Government! I say Science is with us, let's vaccinate children and force people with cancer to get the Shot before we continue their treatment... /s It's been 20 years since the last time any official media and mainstream political party used logic to analyze anything. Did anyone see that the average life expectancy of the 10% additional boomer population is coming to an end? Wouldn't that give us at least 10% more mortality?
- croes 5y ago
  you do realize that there had been and are mandatory vaccinations in Germany?
  - Nemrod67 5y ago
    yep, but you can be dispensed if you have a medical condition. And those vaccines have been tested for 5+ years and on the market for 20+. In France we are refusing entry to hospitals for people with frickin cancer, even though we are supposed to vaccinate to protect people who cannot (or at least that was the "Science" up until now). We left logic and science at the door.

cygx 5y ago

The STIKO does not currently recommend the vaccine for pregnant or breastfeeding mothers. And these groups will continue to be able to get tested for free.

rPlayer6554 5y ago

The article says that those who have health conditions that specifically prevent them from taking the vaccine will still get free tests.

lazyjones 5y ago

Of course money is not the issue, it's just a (poor) excuse for increasing the pressure on people who do not wish to get this vaccination. I'd like to see the faces of citizens who support this kind of thing when the government decides that, due to the increased transmissions with the Delta variant even among vaccinated people, paid tests will be required for them too.

ivan_gammel 5y ago

I’m quite certain that this is a coercion of those hesitant groups rather than a conspiracy to cover up anything. Vaccines used in Germany are good enough against Alpha and Beta, but the government was pretty clear about risks coming with Delta, when they added „Virusvariantengebiet“ category for some countries requiring the mandatory quarantine even for vaccinated people (now they are actually less alarmist on this matter).

_ph_ 5y ago

The cost for a shot of vaccine and for a single test are roughly the same. Most people would need 2 shots of vaccine in total, the test needs to be done every day you want to go to a restaurant or participate in a similar activity.

ahartmetz 5y ago

Well, it is probably first an attempt to put pressure on those who don't want to get vaccinated, and second an attempt to save money. I am fine with that. People will not be "forced" to get vaccinated, as was promised. But in practice they will be, which I think is a good thing. Obviously I am pro vaccination and fully vaccinated by now.

jeofken 5y ago
Funny how with fully representative democracy, coercion is done passive aggressively
nwellnhof 5y ago
> But in practice they will be I fear that in practice, this will divide the pro-vax and anti-vax camps even further. Pressuring, insulting and deriding unvaccinated people will make them even less likely to get the vaccine.
- ahartmetz 5y ago
  I fear the same. I think doing what needs to be done to get people vaccinated is good, but whether or not it's still a net positive after alienating people like that remains to be seen.

_Microft 5y ago

"STIKO" is the acronym of the "Ständige Impfkommission", or "permanent vaccination commission" as the dictionary translates it. They are the office responsible for recommendation of vaccinations in Germany. A lack of recommendation does not mean that doctors could not vaccinate people anyways. The STIKO has not recommended vaccination of all youths yet (12-17 year old) but only for those at risk for example. Since the vaccines are already approved for that range of age though, some federate states have greenlit doing it in their vaccination centers anyways.

dr_faustus 5y ago

One test costs about as much as one dose of vaccine. So there is a considerably higher cost associated with weekly (or more) testing than with vaccination. Taxpayers (70% of which have now gotten vaccinated) don't have to pay for the luxury of the unvaccinated. Mind you, the government doesn't force you to get tested, btw.. You just can't partake in certain activities if you don't want to spend the money on the tests and don't want to get the vaccine.

TurboHaskal 5y ago
You forgot why we are doing these tests (and vaccinating people): It's not about you as an individual. The free tests have been invaluable to prevent contagion (by encouraging self isolation) and predict the eventual saturation of the sanitary system. This also sends the wrong message: That a vaccinated person has a substantial degree of immunity enough and cannot spread the virus, thus being allowed to enter public places without a test. We know this isn't the case.

jonp888 5y ago

> The STIKO does not currently recommend the vaccine for pregnant or breastfeeding mothers. They don't expressly reccomend it, true, but that's because of lack of data, not because they have any reason to think it may cause problems. They say only that each person has to balance the risk of possible of unknown side effects of the vaccine against the consequences of a full-blown Covid infection during preganancy. Pregnant Women can still have the vaccine if they wish. I asked a few doctors about this, and all said they would have no qualms about doing it.

jansan 5y ago
The STIKO is the only organization that I currently trust. The have proven to be a stronhold of reason so far.