6 ms·

I really like the idea of disappearing chat. I want my chats to be like an old landline telephone call. Hang up the phone and the conversation is over and wha

I really like the idea of disappearing chat. I want my chats to be like an old landline telephone call. Hang up the phone and the conversation is over and what we both take from it are the parts we remember. Massive backlogs of text conversations are just added digital mental baggage in the already overstimulated digital world I live in. We already have email for things we need permanent record of.

EvanAnderson 5y ago
My view is exactly the opposite. Having suffered from the "I thought you said..." problem (where other parties recall a verbal conversation differently than me, out of forgetfulness on either of our parts or to serve their interests) for so much of my life I welcome these ubiquitous devices that augment my memory and provide black and white clarity to what was actually said. I have no nostalgia for lossy recall and the inability to quote myself or others verbatim. My memory probably isn't what it used to be in my 20's either. The role of memory augmentation in my life will likely only become greater.
- medstrom 5y ago
  Funny, I can't say I've suffered problems from that, and my conversation memory is terrible. Are you sure it's not a matter of attitude, communication style or expectations turning it into a problem for you?
  - jan_Inkepa 5y ago
    I find it often useful to be able to go back and search through conversations. Even trivial things can become part of a richer back and forth if you can remember + reference them. It helps keep the oblivion of forgetting at bay, which is for me terrifying and really depressing. People who turn on transient messaging, it's their right, and I get it, but it's also hobbling me from doing what I'm quite good at and basically exposing what's for me an upsetting functional disability, which bums me out a bit. (If I really cared I could take notes elsewhere, yes, but jeeze that's a lot of work for daily chitchat)
    - mnsc 5y ago
      "You say you don't want to go out for drinks with me because you're 'cutting back on alcohol', yet curiously I found in our chat log that you two years ago, almost to the day, said, and I quoute 'Thos cutting back on alcohol are just pussies, I will _never_ [your emphasis not mine] cut back on alcohol, life's just to much fun drunk! =DDDD lol'. So I guess you are lying and just don't want to hang out with me anymore!?! :´( I fucking hate you!" Like that?
      - EvanAnderson 5y ago
        That sounds awful and certainly not what I was thinking about in the GP post. That's not to say that having a persistent log of communication might not expose someone's pattern of lying. If it did I'd definitely incorporate that knowledge into how I interact with that person. It's not something I'd ever state explicitly, nor that I'd necessarily tell anybody else, but it would be factored-in to how I deal with that person.
    - EvanAnderson 5y ago
      My electronic devices are extensions of my biological memory. Just as I don't want my biological memories to fade (and, as you say, that thought is upsetting to me) I don't want my electronic memories to fade either. I don't have life experience that makes me wish to forget. I recognize other people do but I also can't honestly say I understand it. Hopefully I never will since I can only assume the wish to forget accompanies traumatic memories.
- gherkinnn 5y ago
  That’s exactly the beauty. Not being beholden to the exact phrasing of something texted a year ago. It doesn’t matter. The Entire History Of You was spot on. Interrupting conversations with “lemme check that” followed by fondling a phone is a nasty habit anyway.
  - EvanAnderson 5y ago
    We are beholden to what we say whether it's recorded verbatim or in the biological memories of others. I'd rather be beholden to an exact record versus fallible and mutable human memory. I try to choose my words very carefully. I can't control somebody else's memory about what I said. If they're "offloading" that memory to a data storage mechanism I can at least be reasonably assured my original words will be preserved. re: interrupting conversations - Yeah. That sounds like a dick move, and not something I'd do. The whole "I'll go look this up on xxx reference site" that some people inject into conversations can be maddening. Rarely do I hold a phone or look at a screen while I'm talking to others. I wish more people did that. I do think there's good value in referencing old communication if it's something the parties agree has value. If I'm working with somebody to make a decision that could be better-informed by way of looking up old communication I'm going to suggest it, but I'm not going to actually do it unsolicited.
- stavros 5y ago
  When do you ever go back to double-check something someone has said, without them claiming they said something different? If you only do it to prove you were right, stop doing that, it's not a good look.
  - jan_Inkepa 5y ago
    > If you only do it to prove you were right, stop doing that, it's not a good look. It seems fine to me if someone makes an error in recollection to correct them (if it's about something material). I mean there are more and less nice ways to do it, and you don't necessarily want to do it about everything, but it seems like a very odd rule of thumb to me to say "it's not a good look". Maybe you have a particular personality archetype/pathological behaviour in mind that I'm not familiar with? Is it about the awkward relational-imbalance that might be created between people who check records and people who can't be bothered? (the former able to use their spare time to reduce the status of the other party within the relationship, who lack the time/stamina/desire to reciprocate). I know some super-pedantic people, who might engage in such correction pathologically. With those friends I actively resist ever making any distinction/categorisation that might be used against me in the future. It's a real arms race!
    - stavros 5y ago
      > It seems fine to me if someone makes an error in recollection to correct them (if it's about something material). What sort of error? The GP said "where other parties recall a verbal conversation differently than me", and what's the benefit there? You have two differing views of a conversation, you can say "oh well I meant X" and move on. There's no benefit in figuring out who got it wrong just to apportion blame. Just leave it ambiguous and clarify the intention when you realize there was a misunderstanding. > Maybe you have a particular personality archetype/pathological behaviour in mind that I'm not familiar with? It's nothing pathological, some people just tend to want to go back to prove they were right, but proving the other person wrong doesn't tend to be productive.
      - EvanAnderson 5y ago
- JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
  Imagine someone recording, transcribing, and searchable indexing every phone call you have ever made or setting up a microphone for every conversation you have. I don’t think that is healthy and that is what text messaging is now. It’s more like a legal deposition.
  - EvanAnderson 5y ago
    That sounds lovely. A recorded, transcribed, indexed version of my life (something like MyLifeBits[0], I suppose) would be a glorious addition to my biological memory. If I could be assured of privacy in the recordings (which I think isn't achievable today) I'd jump at the chance. I don't think I have a particularly bad memory, but it's not exceptional and won't be getting better as I get older. The idea of enhanced recall is very exciting to me. I wish the technology was something available to everybody should they choose to partake. Society would have to adapt. What is human history, though, if not a narrative about society adapting to technological change? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyLifeBits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyLifeBits

EvanAnderson 5y ago

My view is exactly the opposite. Having suffered from the "I thought you said..." problem (where other parties recall a verbal conversation differently than me, out of forgetfulness on either of our parts or to serve their interests) for so much of my life I welcome these ubiquitous devices that augment my memory and provide black and white clarity to what was actually said. I have no nostalgia for lossy recall and the inability to quote myself or others verbatim. My memory probably isn't what it used to be in my 20's either. The role of memory augmentation in my life will likely only become greater.

medstrom 5y ago
Funny, I can't say I've suffered problems from that, and my conversation memory is terrible. Are you sure it's not a matter of attitude, communication style or expectations turning it into a problem for you?
- jan_Inkepa 5y ago
  I find it often useful to be able to go back and search through conversations. Even trivial things can become part of a richer back and forth if you can remember + reference them. It helps keep the oblivion of forgetting at bay, which is for me terrifying and really depressing. People who turn on transient messaging, it's their right, and I get it, but it's also hobbling me from doing what I'm quite good at and basically exposing what's for me an upsetting functional disability, which bums me out a bit. (If I really cared I could take notes elsewhere, yes, but jeeze that's a lot of work for daily chitchat)
  - mnsc 5y ago
    "You say you don't want to go out for drinks with me because you're 'cutting back on alcohol', yet curiously I found in our chat log that you two years ago, almost to the day, said, and I quoute 'Thos cutting back on alcohol are just pussies, I will _never_ [your emphasis not mine] cut back on alcohol, life's just to much fun drunk! =DDDD lol'. So I guess you are lying and just don't want to hang out with me anymore!?! :´( I fucking hate you!" Like that?
    - EvanAnderson 5y ago
      That sounds awful and certainly not what I was thinking about in the GP post. That's not to say that having a persistent log of communication might not expose someone's pattern of lying. If it did I'd definitely incorporate that knowledge into how I interact with that person. It's not something I'd ever state explicitly, nor that I'd necessarily tell anybody else, but it would be factored-in to how I deal with that person.
  - EvanAnderson 5y ago
    My electronic devices are extensions of my biological memory. Just as I don't want my biological memories to fade (and, as you say, that thought is upsetting to me) I don't want my electronic memories to fade either. I don't have life experience that makes me wish to forget. I recognize other people do but I also can't honestly say I understand it. Hopefully I never will since I can only assume the wish to forget accompanies traumatic memories.
gherkinnn 5y ago
That’s exactly the beauty. Not being beholden to the exact phrasing of something texted a year ago. It doesn’t matter. The Entire History Of You was spot on. Interrupting conversations with “lemme check that” followed by fondling a phone is a nasty habit anyway.
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  We are beholden to what we say whether it's recorded verbatim or in the biological memories of others. I'd rather be beholden to an exact record versus fallible and mutable human memory. I try to choose my words very carefully. I can't control somebody else's memory about what I said. If they're "offloading" that memory to a data storage mechanism I can at least be reasonably assured my original words will be preserved. re: interrupting conversations - Yeah. That sounds like a dick move, and not something I'd do. The whole "I'll go look this up on xxx reference site" that some people inject into conversations can be maddening. Rarely do I hold a phone or look at a screen while I'm talking to others. I wish more people did that. I do think there's good value in referencing old communication if it's something the parties agree has value. If I'm working with somebody to make a decision that could be better-informed by way of looking up old communication I'm going to suggest it, but I'm not going to actually do it unsolicited.
stavros 5y ago
When do you ever go back to double-check something someone has said, without them claiming they said something different? If you only do it to prove you were right, stop doing that, it's not a good look.
- jan_Inkepa 5y ago
  > If you only do it to prove you were right, stop doing that, it's not a good look. It seems fine to me if someone makes an error in recollection to correct them (if it's about something material). I mean there are more and less nice ways to do it, and you don't necessarily want to do it about everything, but it seems like a very odd rule of thumb to me to say "it's not a good look". Maybe you have a particular personality archetype/pathological behaviour in mind that I'm not familiar with? Is it about the awkward relational-imbalance that might be created between people who check records and people who can't be bothered? (the former able to use their spare time to reduce the status of the other party within the relationship, who lack the time/stamina/desire to reciprocate). I know some super-pedantic people, who might engage in such correction pathologically. With those friends I actively resist ever making any distinction/categorisation that might be used against me in the future. It's a real arms race!
  - stavros 5y ago
    > It seems fine to me if someone makes an error in recollection to correct them (if it's about something material). What sort of error? The GP said "where other parties recall a verbal conversation differently than me", and what's the benefit there? You have two differing views of a conversation, you can say "oh well I meant X" and move on. There's no benefit in figuring out who got it wrong just to apportion blame. Just leave it ambiguous and clarify the intention when you realize there was a misunderstanding. > Maybe you have a particular personality archetype/pathological behaviour in mind that I'm not familiar with? It's nothing pathological, some people just tend to want to go back to prove they were right, but proving the other person wrong doesn't tend to be productive.
    - EvanAnderson 5y ago
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
Imagine someone recording, transcribing, and searchable indexing every phone call you have ever made or setting up a microphone for every conversation you have. I don’t think that is healthy and that is what text messaging is now. It’s more like a legal deposition.
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  That sounds lovely. A recorded, transcribed, indexed version of my life (something like MyLifeBits[0], I suppose) would be a glorious addition to my biological memory. If I could be assured of privacy in the recordings (which I think isn't achievable today) I'd jump at the chance. I don't think I have a particularly bad memory, but it's not exceptional and won't be getting better as I get older. The idea of enhanced recall is very exciting to me. I wish the technology was something available to everybody should they choose to partake. Society would have to adapt. What is human history, though, if not a narrative about society adapting to technological change? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyLifeBits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyLifeBits