5 ms·

As a queer person who uses TikTok, I think you should take some time to challenge your assumptions and get some more information. This video might be informativ

by n8cpdx 5y ago

As a queer person who uses TikTok, I think you should take some time to challenge your assumptions and get some more information. This video might be informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MYEtQ5Zdn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MYEtQ5Zdn8 I should correct a mistake I made earlier: all of my numbers cited are likes not views. The TikTok promoting vaccines was seen 3.5 Million times. There are many queer creators with videos in the millions of views, and many more with videos in the hundreds of thousands. Still, I don't think its reasonable to expect niche content from obese people to perform as well as generic content from normative people. I also don't think its reasonable to expect trans content to perform as well, given that a substantial portion of the US population still doesn't want to recognize or legalize their existence. Yet, there is an abundance of queer content (content that sought me out, I never told TikTok that I'm gay), much of it quite niche. TikTok sends me enough gay male twink armpit fetish content that I don't realistically think you can say they're making a serious effort to suppress it. If you're focusing on hashtags and not algorithm suggestions, I think you don't have a strong grasp of how TikTok works. All of the cited sources are quite old, so perhaps it was too early for folks to actually have time to use and understand the service. Your claim that there is nothing threatening to China or TikTok economically is suspect, given the algorithm has also suggested Uighur muslim genocide content: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1RhcUj/ https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1RhcUj/ - there are many more. This one has 65k likes. I also had no trouble searching for Taiwan and finding content that is quite hostile to China. I've had the fyp send me content directly critical of TikTok itself. > “In practice, most of these hashtags are categorised in TikTok’s code in the same way that terrorist groups, illicit substances, and swear words are treated on the platform.” The implementation details of an app aren't necessarily meaningful in the way you suggest. Twitter does something similar; I can type #isis #gay #weed #sex, and now Twitter has code that handles lgbtq, terrorist, and illicit substance content the same way.

ralusek 5y ago
> also don't think its reasonable to expect trans content to perform as well, given that a substantial portion of the US population still doesn't want to recognize or legalize their existence 1.) A substantial portion of the US population doesn't want to recognize or legalize the existence of trans people? What are you talking about? You're aware of some faction that's actively trying to make being transgender illegal? 2.) Your expectation is that content produced by transgender individuals (less than 1% of the population) is on aggregate as popular as content made by the remaining 99% of people? Do you mind defining the distribution you would consider to be acceptable here, as well as why you think it currently isn't your desired distribution?
- nl 5y ago
  Have you responded to the wrong comment here? You seem to be agreeing that obese, trans and other niche content is likely to be less popular than generic, less niche content. 1.) A substantial portion of the US population doesn't want to recognize or legalize the existence of trans people? What are you talking about? You're aware of some faction that's actively trying to make being transgender illegal? Hard to read what you disagree with here, but yes there are factions that are trying to make behaviours that trans people exhibit illegal. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathroom_bill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathroom_bill
- n8cpdx 5y ago
  1) recognize: https://www.dailywire.com/news/report-transgenderism-not-supported-science-amanda-prestigiacomo https://www.dailywire.com/news/report-transgenderism-not-sup... (one example of thousands, I’m sure) 1) legalize: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_Un... 2) I am specifically contesting that assertion. We appear to have a case of violent agreement here. One of the earlier posts suggested that lack of a trans person with 10+ million views is evidence that TT is suppressing content. I contend that the relative unpopularity of trans-related content (only hundreds of thousands or a few million views) is well explained by structural factors and no intervention on TT’s part would be needed to create that outcome. If anything, my experience is that queer and trans content is overrepresented on the platform relative to what you’d expect based on the IRL population/demographics.
  - ralusek 5y ago
    Okay well let's limit the conversation to #1, then. Let's start with legal, since it's easier. --- So, I don't understand what any of what you linked has to do with "legalizing the existence of trans people." Nothing referenced in the wikipedia article is remotely to do with making it illegal to be transgender, and I have never heard an argument advocating for that. So what is being debated is whether or not transgender individuals should be granted protections on the basis of their gender identity. That is not debating whether or not they should exist, it is debating whether or not an additional legislative layer should be put in place to prevent workplace discrimination on the basis of gender identity. Then there is a debate about birth certificates, about whether or not transgender individuals should be able to have their birth certificate reflect their chosen gender identity, but this is just as much to do with language as anything else. The concept of sex vs gender identity, and the meaning of "gender" as ambiguous between those depending on political faction. Again, this isn't a debate about whether transgender people can legally exist, it's a debate about whether the world should be altered so as to conform to their own perception of themselves. --- This leads to "recognition." Your definition of "recognition" seems to be "recognized within the exact framing of themselves as they wish to be seen." Let's consider two examples of identity related dysphoria. One is a born biological male who considers his gender identity to be female, and one is a man on a street corner that believes himself to be Jesus Christ. If the rest of society refused to see the man on the corner as Jesus Christ, would you say that this was society not recognizing the existence of the man? Surely not. The acceptance of his existence, and the application of all human rights applied to the individual have nothing to do with whether or not people accept this man on all of the terms of his asserted identity. In regards to transgender individuals, accepting this person's identity often boils down to strict hardline questions, a la "is this person a woman?" Any degree of nuance in the answer to that question is to be understood as society "not recognizing the existence" of transgender people? No. I'm sorry. But a failure to recognize somebody exactly within the framing of their own identity that they put forward is not the same as not accepting their existence. That language is absurd.

by n8cpdx 5y ago

ralusek 5y ago

> also don't think its reasonable to expect trans content to perform as well, given that a substantial portion of the US population still doesn't want to recognize or legalize their existence 1.) A substantial portion of the US population doesn't want to recognize or legalize the existence of trans people? What are you talking about? You're aware of some faction that's actively trying to make being transgender illegal? 2.) Your expectation is that content produced by transgender individuals (less than 1% of the population) is on aggregate as popular as content made by the remaining 99% of people? Do you mind defining the distribution you would consider to be acceptable here, as well as why you think it currently isn't your desired distribution?

nl 5y ago
Have you responded to the wrong comment here? You seem to be agreeing that obese, trans and other niche content is likely to be less popular than generic, less niche content. 1.) A substantial portion of the US population doesn't want to recognize or legalize the existence of trans people? What are you talking about? You're aware of some faction that's actively trying to make being transgender illegal? Hard to read what you disagree with here, but yes there are factions that are trying to make behaviours that trans people exhibit illegal. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathroom_bill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathroom_bill
n8cpdx 5y ago
1) recognize: https://www.dailywire.com/news/report-transgenderism-not-supported-science-amanda-prestigiacomo https://www.dailywire.com/news/report-transgenderism-not-sup... (one example of thousands, I’m sure) 1) legalize: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_Un... 2) I am specifically contesting that assertion. We appear to have a case of violent agreement here. One of the earlier posts suggested that lack of a trans person with 10+ million views is evidence that TT is suppressing content. I contend that the relative unpopularity of trans-related content (only hundreds of thousands or a few million views) is well explained by structural factors and no intervention on TT’s part would be needed to create that outcome. If anything, my experience is that queer and trans content is overrepresented on the platform relative to what you’d expect based on the IRL population/demographics.
- ralusek 5y ago
  Okay well let's limit the conversation to #1, then. Let's start with legal, since it's easier. --- So, I don't understand what any of what you linked has to do with "legalizing the existence of trans people." Nothing referenced in the wikipedia article is remotely to do with making it illegal to be transgender, and I have never heard an argument advocating for that. So what is being debated is whether or not transgender individuals should be granted protections on the basis of their gender identity. That is not debating whether or not they should exist, it is debating whether or not an additional legislative layer should be put in place to prevent workplace discrimination on the basis of gender identity. Then there is a debate about birth certificates, about whether or not transgender individuals should be able to have their birth certificate reflect their chosen gender identity, but this is just as much to do with language as anything else. The concept of sex vs gender identity, and the meaning of "gender" as ambiguous between those depending on political faction. Again, this isn't a debate about whether transgender people can legally exist, it's a debate about whether the world should be altered so as to conform to their own perception of themselves. --- This leads to "recognition." Your definition of "recognition" seems to be "recognized within the exact framing of themselves as they wish to be seen." Let's consider two examples of identity related dysphoria. One is a born biological male who considers his gender identity to be female, and one is a man on a street corner that believes himself to be Jesus Christ. If the rest of society refused to see the man on the corner as Jesus Christ, would you say that this was society not recognizing the existence of the man? Surely not. The acceptance of his existence, and the application of all human rights applied to the individual have nothing to do with whether or not people accept this man on all of the terms of his asserted identity. In regards to transgender individuals, accepting this person's identity often boils down to strict hardline questions, a la "is this person a woman?" Any degree of nuance in the answer to that question is to be understood as society "not recognizing the existence" of transgender people? No. I'm sorry. But a failure to recognize somebody exactly within the framing of their own identity that they put forward is not the same as not accepting their existence. That language is absurd.