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I think I feel the opposite to you. I want the ORM to handle the trivial stuff like SELECT * FROM table WHERE id=? and UPDATE table SET thing=? WHERE id=?. That

• OJFord 5y ago
  > I want the ORM to handle the trivial stuff like SELECT * FROM table WHERE id=? and UPDATE table SET thing=? WHERE id=?. Why are list(Table.objects.filter(id=?)) and Table.objects.filter(id=?).update(thing=?) better? That's what I mean by the trivial, it's 'handled', sure, with some pointless (IMO) thin wrapper that's Django-specific to learn. (Sure it's not loads to learn, but it has its quirks. I always have to check the meaning of the 'defaults' kwarg to update it create for example.) > On the other hand, for complex stuff, I'd rather write the raw SQL, since it's in a real language and not some half-baked, under-documented DSL that everyone onboarding onto the project will be unfamiliar with. Yes, I agree! I just think the trivial wrapper stuff isn't valuable, and especially if I'm using raw SQL for less trivial stuff, I may as well always do so. I think my comment above might've sounded ambiguously like maybe I wanted DSL for more complex stuff. That's not what I meant - I meant that it tends to be more complex in the DSL than in SQL, up to the point where it's just impossible in the DSL, and you either use SQL or don't do it.
  • notJim 5y ago
    > Why are list(Table.objects.filter(id=?)) and Table.objects.filter(id=?).update(thing=?) better? I'm not familiar with SQLAlchemy, but with other ORMs, this isn't how you'd write this. It would be more like Widgets.findOne(id) and then widget.property = bla; widget.save(); For me this is much more natural than writing SQL, especially for the update query. There are usually also query helpers for simple queries by fields, like Table.findWhere({property: 'value', property2: 'value2'}). To me this syntax is much less awkward than writing SQL in strings, and it saves you from repeatedly writing out the SELECT statements and where clauses.
    • OJFord 5y ago
      That was Django, not SQLAlchemy. You can also do it more as you describe, `get(pk=id)` instead of `findOne`. I just find it pointlessly different to SQL, not really saying it's worse. The SQL would be `update table set thing = ? where id = ?`.