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> Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs. Right, I'm sometimes puzzl

> Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs. Right, I'm sometimes puzzled by how people approach their personal "deal-breakers" that prevent Mac->Lin (or Win->Lin) switch. Many of the issues are presented as though they are bugs or clear-cut missing features, but are in fact subjective preference statements. In this case the "spacebar to preview" feature might be a must-have for some, but to others it might not be important, and maybe even to some be perceived as an anti-feature. I personally see this particular feature as redundant (given there is already thumbnailing and a means to open files) and unintuitive, and thus just more clutter. But I also don't care too much, since I could always disable it if it came pre-enabled. The worst cases of this is when some insist that not only is their particular preference the The One Way, but that stubborn Linux DE developers are somehow at fault for not implementing The One Way, and that's why Linux will never be popular. There are plenty of things that might keep "normies" from switching, but random obscure DE features are not them. People tolerate FAR worse UX disasters than any major Linux DE.

lordgroff 5y ago
I always feel like I'm in a different plane from the rest of the universe when discussing these things. When I read how Linux DEs are "obviously" garbage, I just generally throw up a thought bubble with few question marks above my head in confusion and go on with my day. I find Mac OS a frustrating experience personally, but assume it's mostly a result of not being used to it.
- michaelpb 5y ago
  > I always feel like I'm in a different plane from the rest of the universe when discussing these things. Exactly! It really feels like there's this massive disconnect in these conversations that I can't explain. Whenever I have to use macOS, I'm a complete mess, and to me like it's missing basic features and doesn't support my workflow without lots of 3rd party add-ons, etc. That said, I probably am using it wrong, so I don't go around saying that macOS desktop is obviously garbage. I know that other people prefer this style, so that's A-OK.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > I find Mac OS a frustrating experience personally, but assume it's mostly a result of not being used to it. I used it at my previous job, 2014-18 -- got the choice between a Mac and IIRC a ThinkPad when I started, and never having used a Mac before I wanted to finally try it -- and got a MacBook Pro, can't recall the vintage. Broke the screen a couple years later, got a 2016. But, anyway: Took a while to get used to the OS, and certainly didn't feel all that "super-intuitive" as the hype has had it for all these years. So, observation #1: If I could get used to it (and I got quite comfortable after a while), I can't see why people can't go the other way just as easily. Can't recall the OS version at the beginning (one of the last of the big cats, or some US body of water?), but later it upgraded via various Californian (or Oregon, Washington?) rivers or lakes to Maverick and finally, I think (for the last few months), to El Capitan. Can't recall if it set in right away, but after a couple of years at the latest I noticed the same thing as many here have mentioned, namely Observation #2: With every new version, the OS gets a little more limited and locked down.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
> Right, I'm sometimes puzzled by how people approach their personal "deal-breakers" that prevent Mac->Lin (or Win->Lin) switch. Many of the issues are presented as though they are bugs or clear-cut missing features, but are in fact subjective preference statements. Since preference is pretty important, does it really matter? If they have a workflow they like and no significant pressure to change, why would they? You speak as though it is everyone's most pressing goal to transition to Linux Desktop for some reason. > The worst cases of this is when some insist that not only is their particular preference the The One Way, but that stubborn Linux DE developers are somehow at fault for not implementing The One Way, and that's why Linux will never be popular. There's a lot of reasons Linux will never be popular, developers ignoring the workflows and use cases of potential users is just one of them. The condescending attitude of many of its supposed proponents is another. Why would I want to switch to a Desktop that's as clunky and haphazard as Windows 10, just in different ways that I have to relearn?
eloisant 5y ago
It reminds me an article from the author of Paul Buchheit (gmail's creator), when he was beta testing it internally with Google employees. Many of them were asking for email preview popups directly from the inbox. Instead of implementing it, he realized the need wasn't for a popup but for a wait to see your email quickly. The real issue was that it was slow when you clicked on an email, so he made it fast instead.
Normille 5y ago
>Having both an “Open” command and an “Open, but faster and does less” command >I personally see this particular feature as redundant (given there is already thumbnailing and a means to open files) I'm guessing neither of you have actually used QuickLook and/or don't use apps like Photoshop or Illustrator which, even on a fast SSD equipped laptop can take around 30 seconds to open. QuickLook is much more than just a preview. When I'm browsing a folder of my image files and can't remember which of dozens of files is the one I actually want, QuickLook lets me pop open a screen sized modal preview window, which is as good as having that file open in the app. If it's not the file I'm looking for, I hit the up or down arrows and the next or previous file's content is displayed in the already open preview popup. If some of those other image files were created by Illustrator, I've just saved myself an additional ~30 seconds, by not having to open that app too. And, once I find the image I want, I can open it in its associated app directly from a button in the top of the preview pane. But, even if you're not a graphic designer, QuickLook has its uses for other types of document too. It can preview the content of source code files [with syntax highlighting] preview the rendered output of things like HTML, PDF, Markdown, AsciiDoc etc. You can even scroll through the pages of a multipage document. This is another timesaver I use all the time. Being able to check the date or bottom line on a received PDF invoice, without opening it... being able to check whether I mentioned something in a letter I sent, without firing up a text editor or word processor... being able to see a rendered representation of what an HTML file contains... etc. etc.
- mananaysiempre 5y ago
  No, that’s not what I meant. I do in fact use the previewer I linked to, and would be worse off without it. I just think that it the apps that make it necessary shouldn’t do so: if Photoshop (or GIMP, or LibreOffice, or whatever) takes 30 seconds to open a file, the solution shouldn’t be to layer on yet another option and make me think whether I want to suffer that delay or reduced functionality, it should be to eliminate the delay. Yet (as I’ve also said) I don’t think anybody came up with a plausible way to do so (even a purely technical one, disregarding economic incentives for app developers).
  - brnt 5y ago

lordgroff 5y ago

I always feel like I'm in a different plane from the rest of the universe when discussing these things. When I read how Linux DEs are "obviously" garbage, I just generally throw up a thought bubble with few question marks above my head in confusion and go on with my day. I find Mac OS a frustrating experience personally, but assume it's mostly a result of not being used to it.

michaelpb 5y ago
> I always feel like I'm in a different plane from the rest of the universe when discussing these things. Exactly! It really feels like there's this massive disconnect in these conversations that I can't explain. Whenever I have to use macOS, I'm a complete mess, and to me like it's missing basic features and doesn't support my workflow without lots of 3rd party add-ons, etc. That said, I probably am using it wrong, so I don't go around saying that macOS desktop is obviously garbage. I know that other people prefer this style, so that's A-OK.
CRConrad 5y ago
> I find Mac OS a frustrating experience personally, but assume it's mostly a result of not being used to it. I used it at my previous job, 2014-18 -- got the choice between a Mac and IIRC a ThinkPad when I started, and never having used a Mac before I wanted to finally try it -- and got a MacBook Pro, can't recall the vintage. Broke the screen a couple years later, got a 2016. But, anyway: Took a while to get used to the OS, and certainly didn't feel all that "super-intuitive" as the hype has had it for all these years. So, observation #1: If I could get used to it (and I got quite comfortable after a while), I can't see why people can't go the other way just as easily. Can't recall the OS version at the beginning (one of the last of the big cats, or some US body of water?), but later it upgraded via various Californian (or Oregon, Washington?) rivers or lakes to Maverick and finally, I think (for the last few months), to El Capitan. Can't recall if it set in right away, but after a couple of years at the latest I noticed the same thing as many here have mentioned, namely Observation #2: With every new version, the OS gets a little more limited and locked down.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

> Right, I'm sometimes puzzled by how people approach their personal "deal-breakers" that prevent Mac->Lin (or Win->Lin) switch. Many of the issues are presented as though they are bugs or clear-cut missing features, but are in fact subjective preference statements. Since preference is pretty important, does it really matter? If they have a workflow they like and no significant pressure to change, why would they? You speak as though it is everyone's most pressing goal to transition to Linux Desktop for some reason. > The worst cases of this is when some insist that not only is their particular preference the The One Way, but that stubborn Linux DE developers are somehow at fault for not implementing The One Way, and that's why Linux will never be popular. There's a lot of reasons Linux will never be popular, developers ignoring the workflows and use cases of potential users is just one of them. The condescending attitude of many of its supposed proponents is another. Why would I want to switch to a Desktop that's as clunky and haphazard as Windows 10, just in different ways that I have to relearn?

eloisant 5y ago

It reminds me an article from the author of Paul Buchheit (gmail's creator), when he was beta testing it internally with Google employees. Many of them were asking for email preview popups directly from the inbox. Instead of implementing it, he realized the need wasn't for a popup but for a wait to see your email quickly. The real issue was that it was slow when you clicked on an email, so he made it fast instead.

Normille 5y ago

>Having both an “Open” command and an “Open, but faster and does less” command >I personally see this particular feature as redundant (given there is already thumbnailing and a means to open files) I'm guessing neither of you have actually used QuickLook and/or don't use apps like Photoshop or Illustrator which, even on a fast SSD equipped laptop can take around 30 seconds to open. QuickLook is much more than just a preview. When I'm browsing a folder of my image files and can't remember which of dozens of files is the one I actually want, QuickLook lets me pop open a screen sized modal preview window, which is as good as having that file open in the app. If it's not the file I'm looking for, I hit the up or down arrows and the next or previous file's content is displayed in the already open preview popup. If some of those other image files were created by Illustrator, I've just saved myself an additional ~30 seconds, by not having to open that app too. And, once I find the image I want, I can open it in its associated app directly from a button in the top of the preview pane. But, even if you're not a graphic designer, QuickLook has its uses for other types of document too. It can preview the content of source code files [with syntax highlighting] preview the rendered output of things like HTML, PDF, Markdown, AsciiDoc etc. You can even scroll through the pages of a multipage document. This is another timesaver I use all the time. Being able to check the date or bottom line on a received PDF invoice, without opening it... being able to check whether I mentioned something in a letter I sent, without firing up a text editor or word processor... being able to see a rendered representation of what an HTML file contains... etc. etc.

mananaysiempre 5y ago
No, that’s not what I meant. I do in fact use the previewer I linked to, and would be worse off without it. I just think that it the apps that make it necessary shouldn’t do so: if Photoshop (or GIMP, or LibreOffice, or whatever) takes 30 seconds to open a file, the solution shouldn’t be to layer on yet another option and make me think whether I want to suffer that delay or reduced functionality, it should be to eliminate the delay. Yet (as I’ve also said) I don’t think anybody came up with a plausible way to do so (even a purely technical one, disregarding economic incentives for app developers).
- brnt 5y ago