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The social media functionality is the secondary purpose of the app, the first being surveillance and data collection. Of course Google, Facebook, and a million

The social media functionality is the secondary purpose of the app, the first being surveillance and data collection. Of course Google, Facebook, and a million other companies do the same thing, all completely disregarding user privacy in favor of selling your information for a quick buck, thereby making the internet a more hostile environment for taking advantage of the technologically uninitiated than ever before. TikTok is just the latest in a line of the worst thing to happen to the internet.

romwell 5y ago
>The social media functionality is the secondary purpose of the app That's like saying that providing people with groceries is the secondary purpose of grocery stores, the first being collecting money in exchange for them. Duh! How horrible! Everyone would be better off if they just grew their own food on their own farm, like in the good old days Saying TikTok is the "worst" thing is absurd given the article we're discussing. The people clearly see value for them in TikTok that hasn't been provided by other services, and adding that to the Internet is unambiguously great. So the value to the users TikTok brings is unique and novel, whereas any potential harm to the users doesn't really change (as everyone and their grandma are collecting all the data already). Yesterday, an average user had, say, 11 data-collecting apps — and today, it's 12. It's not great, but very little changes for the user. Hardly the worst thing IMO.
- rualca 5y ago
  > That's like saying that providing people with groceries is the secondary purpose of grocery stores, the first being collecting money in exchange for them. No, not really. Like Facebook or Google, TikTok's revenue comes from selling ads. The advertisement business quite literally is based on how much personal info they can gather on yourself, and how they can leverage it to allow themselves and third parties to exploit that info to make you more vulnerable to their goals.
  - romwell 5y ago
    In case I didn't make it clear, providing data about yourself and making yourself more "vulnerable" to advertisers is the currency you pay with for using the platform. As far as I care, letting random people know random facts about me so that they're more likely to peddle me stuff that I actually like is not "exploitation", but that's merely an opinion.
    - rualca 5y ago
      > In case I didn't make it clear, providing data about yourself and making yourself more "vulnerable" to advertisers is the currency you pay with for using the platform. No, not really. No one uses a platform like TikTok because they are eager to share their personal data to marketers, and most are entirely oblivious even to which personal data is the service gathering on them. Just because a platform or service or system is free to access that does not mean that we are allowing mysterious third parties to spy on us.
    - namaria 5y ago
      The problem with data collection is not what they companies doing it use it for at the moment. The problem is making so many details of your personal life discoverable by someone simply buying some data and cross referencing databases. When you lose privacy willingly saying "but I have nothing to hide" you also lose the ability to hide from bad actors.
    - teawrecks 5y ago
      You have almost no control over what information you're giving them though. It's more like having to pay the mob for "protection" and then turning to me and saying, "What? That's the price for safety in this neighborhood. I'm choosing to pay."
  - frumper 5y ago
    The way you phrase that it sounds like these social media companies black mail you with dirty secrets they learn about you. I understand why people don't want to be packaged and sold, but a realistic view is that you're getting a service subsidized by all of this.
rvz 5y ago
Precisely. The first purpose is pure invasive data collection of everything on the platform; otherwise how else is that so-called 'legendary recommendation algorithm' supposed to work? That and your data is the key asset that is being sold over and used by other companies as well, which is a violation of user privacy. The news here is reassuring to investors and the users like the parent comment are once again the prime product addicted under a para-social relationship with other addicted influencers working for the 'legendary recommendation algorithm'. They will continue to deny how social networks like TikTok keep screwing over their users repeatedly, even when they pretend that they are 'supporting the users' when in fact the investors are waiting for their giant exit for ByteDance's IPO. After that, we will see who ByteDance (TikTok) really listens to. To the GP comment: > Anyway, we are talking about specific things we like about TikTok as a platform that make it unique (so far), and you are talking in abstract. It is not 'abstract' and the comment [0] (and this related comment [1]) you replied to, has evidence of their claims and is factual. It is your 'anecdotes' which are in denial of these facts. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28134880 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28134880 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28133855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28133855
- modo_mario 5y ago
  One thing of note is that them collecting everything on the platform doesn't really hit me in the same way as facebook doing. Somehow tho tiktok gets more hate. Facebook being a more traditional social media has people dropping info and stuff about their plain personal life whilst tiktok is more of a content platform like youtube. Also unlike facebook and google tiktok has a thougher time following people all around the internet which is probably by far the biggest invasion of privacy.
  - namaria 5y ago
    Might be just me but I'm way more scared of the CCP then of the FB board of directors. The latter hasn't really used online data for genocide purposes yet...
- romwell 5y ago
  >the users like the parent comment are once again the prime product addicted under a para-social relationship with other addicted influencers That's quite a leap from what I said, not to mention a personal attack. Comment [0] doesn't make any factual claims about TikTok (please, go and read it). Comment [1] is outdated, as the policy they has changed since then. "That wall was black two years ago" is a factual claim, but the wall has been repainted since, and anyone with a pair of eyes can go take a look. Also, as a member of the several demographics mentioned in that comment - and, ostensibly, oppressed by TikTok -, me saying that my experience was the opposite and extremely valuable should make you reconsider your words. Have you been affected by TikTok's policy towards vulnerable people? If not, please do not speak on our behalf.

romwell 5y ago

>The social media functionality is the secondary purpose of the app That's like saying that providing people with groceries is the secondary purpose of grocery stores, the first being collecting money in exchange for them. Duh! How horrible! Everyone would be better off if they just grew their own food on their own farm, like in the good old days Saying TikTok is the "worst" thing is absurd given the article we're discussing. The people clearly see value for them in TikTok that hasn't been provided by other services, and adding that to the Internet is unambiguously great. So the value to the users TikTok brings is unique and novel, whereas any potential harm to the users doesn't really change (as everyone and their grandma are collecting all the data already). Yesterday, an average user had, say, 11 data-collecting apps — and today, it's 12. It's not great, but very little changes for the user. Hardly the worst thing IMO.

rualca 5y ago
> That's like saying that providing people with groceries is the secondary purpose of grocery stores, the first being collecting money in exchange for them. No, not really. Like Facebook or Google, TikTok's revenue comes from selling ads. The advertisement business quite literally is based on how much personal info they can gather on yourself, and how they can leverage it to allow themselves and third parties to exploit that info to make you more vulnerable to their goals.
- romwell 5y ago
  In case I didn't make it clear, providing data about yourself and making yourself more "vulnerable" to advertisers is the currency you pay with for using the platform. As far as I care, letting random people know random facts about me so that they're more likely to peddle me stuff that I actually like is not "exploitation", but that's merely an opinion.
  - rualca 5y ago
    > In case I didn't make it clear, providing data about yourself and making yourself more "vulnerable" to advertisers is the currency you pay with for using the platform. No, not really. No one uses a platform like TikTok because they are eager to share their personal data to marketers, and most are entirely oblivious even to which personal data is the service gathering on them. Just because a platform or service or system is free to access that does not mean that we are allowing mysterious third parties to spy on us.
  - namaria 5y ago
    The problem with data collection is not what they companies doing it use it for at the moment. The problem is making so many details of your personal life discoverable by someone simply buying some data and cross referencing databases. When you lose privacy willingly saying "but I have nothing to hide" you also lose the ability to hide from bad actors.
  - teawrecks 5y ago
    You have almost no control over what information you're giving them though. It's more like having to pay the mob for "protection" and then turning to me and saying, "What? That's the price for safety in this neighborhood. I'm choosing to pay."
- frumper 5y ago
  The way you phrase that it sounds like these social media companies black mail you with dirty secrets they learn about you. I understand why people don't want to be packaged and sold, but a realistic view is that you're getting a service subsidized by all of this.

rvz 5y ago

Precisely. The first purpose is pure invasive data collection of everything on the platform; otherwise how else is that so-called 'legendary recommendation algorithm' supposed to work? That and your data is the key asset that is being sold over and used by other companies as well, which is a violation of user privacy. The news here is reassuring to investors and the users like the parent comment are once again the prime product addicted under a para-social relationship with other addicted influencers working for the 'legendary recommendation algorithm'. They will continue to deny how social networks like TikTok keep screwing over their users repeatedly, even when they pretend that they are 'supporting the users' when in fact the investors are waiting for their giant exit for ByteDance's IPO. After that, we will see who ByteDance (TikTok) really listens to. To the GP comment: > Anyway, we are talking about specific things we like about TikTok as a platform that make it unique (so far), and you are talking in abstract. It is not 'abstract' and the comment [0] (and this related comment [1]) you replied to, has evidence of their claims and is factual. It is your 'anecdotes' which are in denial of these facts. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28134880 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28134880 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28133855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28133855

modo_mario 5y ago
One thing of note is that them collecting everything on the platform doesn't really hit me in the same way as facebook doing. Somehow tho tiktok gets more hate. Facebook being a more traditional social media has people dropping info and stuff about their plain personal life whilst tiktok is more of a content platform like youtube. Also unlike facebook and google tiktok has a thougher time following people all around the internet which is probably by far the biggest invasion of privacy.
- namaria 5y ago
  Might be just me but I'm way more scared of the CCP then of the FB board of directors. The latter hasn't really used online data for genocide purposes yet...
romwell 5y ago
>the users like the parent comment are once again the prime product addicted under a para-social relationship with other addicted influencers That's quite a leap from what I said, not to mention a personal attack. Comment [0] doesn't make any factual claims about TikTok (please, go and read it). Comment [1] is outdated, as the policy they has changed since then. "That wall was black two years ago" is a factual claim, but the wall has been repainted since, and anyone with a pair of eyes can go take a look. Also, as a member of the several demographics mentioned in that comment - and, ostensibly, oppressed by TikTok -, me saying that my experience was the opposite and extremely valuable should make you reconsider your words. Have you been affected by TikTok's policy towards vulnerable people? If not, please do not speak on our behalf.