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Pro TikTok take. It's easier and friendlier to consume. The algorithm is good at tailoring interests. But, it's more like TV than FB.

minikites 5y ago
There are plenty of arguments and issues with the politics and moderation of Facebook, but TikTok is more simple than Facebook, and it appeals at that level in the same way Instagram does.
spullara 5y ago
100% agree. The "for you page" is absolutely the best automatically curated feed I have ever seen.
purple_ferret 5y ago
I don't use it, but it looks so painful to me. I couldn't imagine having to 'stage' my life so frequently for the temporary enjoyment of people I do and don't know.
- lovegoblin 5y ago
  So...don't post? Every platform has (read: is primarily) lurkers.
  - purple_ferret 5y ago
    Lurking doesn't seem all that appealing to me either. I just checked the tiktok homepage and the top two videos I saw were of a woman failing a sobriety test and a guy scaring a drive-through woman with a blow horn. I realize this isn't the content you might see once your algo is calculated, but it's obviously popular stuff on the platform and it just doesn't seem like very positive content for me.
    - lovegoblin 5y ago
      > it's obviously popular stuff on the platform and it just doesn't seem like very positive content for me. This is true of everything. If I look at the front page of YouTube in a private browser window, it's all bullshit too, obviously. But there's plenty of quality stuff on YouTube that I do like, ya know? The point is that the well is deep and broad enough that there is probably a whole community of people making content you'd like, and TikTok is extraordinarily good at finding that stuff for you sooner rather than later. I watch tons of diorama-building tutorials and recipe videos, for example. And I'm better both at painting and cooking as a result. Look: I'm not a shill, here. I'm not trying to convince you to get into TikTok (I mean? who cares, honestly) but I find a lot of talk about it tends to boil down to "kids these days" dismissiveness. And yeah I don't post anything there - nobody wants to see my grizzled old-ass face.
      - howaboutnope 5y ago
        > I find a lot of talk about it tends to boil down to "kids these days" dismissiveness These platforms are the products of megacorps, using incredibly sophisticated technology. Just contrast even a single CPU, versus, say, kids using their language faculties and markers to be funny or naughty, or using a bunch of stuff they found outside to invent a game. And then think of how many CPU and other things are involved in the pipeline. Kids being kids is as far from it as it could be. During the peak of the outrage about and the being in denial about Elsagate, there were plenty of people actually saying "these videos probably are this way because AI generated them based on the things toddlers like". People getting stabbed, raped, kids in trunks and crying over being separated from their family, endless body horror -- all brushed aside with "meh, they like that". Pointing to good content that one could pay attention to instead is a bit like saying "ignore the spam email from the Nigerian prince, you obviously aren't in the target demographic for it [let the people who are fend for themselves]". That's what people did with content literally aimed at children who couldn't even speak, why wouldn't they do it for teenagers, and of course for adults. This doesn't affect me, so it doesn't get shown to me, so it's fine. And while online mobs are certainly not a TikTok specialty, just to counter the general fluffy happy picture that so many comments here are painting based on things being fine for themselves: https://www.fluentlyforward.com/home4/my-experience-being-cancelled-on-tiktok https://www.fluentlyforward.com/home4/my-experience-being-ca... > But let me tell you, reading a hate comment about yourself that’s relatively true (I mean hey, I do have thin lips) said by 1 person stings at a level 1 on the pain chart. But reading hate comments about yourself that aren’t true, and are said by tens of thousands of people is….well, it’s a physical feeling. That’s the only way I can describe it. And then there is this: https://theintercept.com/2020/03/16/tiktok-app-moderators-users-discrimination/ https://theintercept.com/2020/03/16/tiktok-app-moderators-us... They weakly claim to no longer use these rules, without saying what rules they use instead. I would bet you that certain political topics are hard filtered though, and some things being censored while fluff being tailored to be addictive is a net negative effect in my books. It's not exclusive to TikTok, but that doesn't absolve it, just like TikTok doesn't absolve others.
nostromo 5y ago
It’s also much more positive. If I spend 20 minutes on TikTok I usually laugh and smile a few times. And regularly I’m impressed at human creativity. 20 minutes on Instagram or Facebook is usually either boring or leaves me comparing myself to others. 20 minutes on YouTube and I feel like I’ve watched 10 minutes of ads and 10 minutes of fluff. 20 minutes on Reddit and I hate the world.
- slohr 5y ago
  this! TikTok regularly leaves me inspired, and across many different creative realms: Amazing makeup, mindblowing parkour, beautiful original music and eye opening covers. Oh and some of the short comedy sketches have left me thoroughly incapacitated due to laughter. The list goes on for me. In general, I'm happier after viewing, even when the "you should stop watching too much TikTok guy" comes on.
- arsome 5y ago
  Yeah, no kidding with that reddit one, every time I go there I feel like everyone is just in constant fear or anger, especially going to subreddits for my city/state. I've near completely stopped using it due to this. Now I just spend way too much time on YouTube instead. It may be a terrible waste of time, but at least it's less angry and fearful.
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    > every time I go there I feel like everyone is just in constant fear or anger Hell, HN feels like this often.
    - fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
      I think about this post a lot: https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most_of_what_you_read_on_the_internet_is_written/ https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most...
  - code_duck 5y ago
    Regional subs are the worst, for whatever reason. My theory is it's because they bring together people with nothing in common besides their geographic location. Even subs that should be neutral, fun or supportive have attitude problems. One about a game I'm playing, for instance, consists mainly of dramatic complaints with a feeling of impending doom.
ghawr 5y ago
Con. The algorithm seems to dish out similarly structured videos for all users. For example, it generally includes music that is extremely annoying. (That "No no no" song that is on every other video). At the same time, I also recognize how addictive the app is and because of it I would never download it myself.
- psyc 5y ago
  This is why I stopped looking at TikTok altogether. "Trends" just seem to be too enormous a use case for creators, to be avoided. I never wanted to know who Megan Thee Stallion or $NOT are, but here we are.
- Kiro 5y ago
  I get "No no no" videos but when I mentioned them to my friend who is using TikTok a lot she had never heard of them. I presumed that was too big of a trend not to leak into everyone's For You feed but I was wrong.
- lovegoblin 5y ago
  > That "No no no" song that is on every other video Oh, every generation of internet users has made repetitive memes like this; we just have more bandwidth now.
thisisnico 5y ago
Honestly, from a social media perspective, TikTok feels like the least toxic environment. Nobody is showing off their new homes, cars, kids, spending. It feels like a significantly reduced pressure to produce. Many of my friends are just consumers of content. Most of the content I'm seeing are memes and are funny. Even the advertising is more light hearted.
- jackcosgrove 5y ago
  I wonder if this is because TikTok targets a younger demographic that is digital native and practices better internet hygiene.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >TikTok targets a younger demographic that is digital native and practices better internet hygiene. Or maybe they're a younger demographic that doesn't have "new homes, cars, kids, spending"? Also, the bit about "practices better internet hygiene" because they're "digital native" is kind of funny. Prior to the mid 2000s the standard advice was not to put public info about yourself online. "internet hygiene" was the norm, even when most people weren't "digital natives".
  - keewee7 5y ago
    >younger demographic that is digital native and practices better internet hygiene Unfortunately 13-25 year olds are less tech sawy than a decade ago because they were raised on locked down platforms like iOS and Android.
- Zandikar 5y ago
  >TikTok feels like the least toxic environment. That's because It's the least commercialized of the social platforms and dominated by youth (for now). AKA we're at the end of it's honeymoon hip-new-platform phase. The company cannot maintain meteoric user-growth forever as there's only so many people in the world, and their primary target demographic that is responsible for much of their growth is already nearing saturation (the youth). As such, they're at an inflection point in their user growth and their operating costs have never been higher. Billions in revenue will only tempt investors for so long when they're still netting a loss in the billions a year and their growth curve is starting to relax. This will see the implementation of more dark patterns to monetize the revenue per user while simultaneously the users on the platform will search for any and every possible advantage to leverage their following for clout and profit (especially as the userbase ages into adulthood and has bills to pay) and ultimately we'll see the same poisoning of the well that we've seen with every other social media platform to date. Question is just how bad it will get.
code_duck 5y ago
Certain types of people have been trying to turn the internet into television since at least 1997. They're getting closer.
MSEmployed 5y ago
There is a time and place for everything. Connecting with all your friends and relatives (over Facebook) was a novelty but is cooling down. We are rather going back to the "celebrities model", admiring influencers on better suited platforms for asynchronous (fan>star, rather than friend<>friend) interactions: YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok.
stiltzkin 5y ago
Beware TikTok is also available for download as APK on Android TV, at the end now TV are smarts but the same outcome follows get stuck watching TV.

minikites 5y ago

There are plenty of arguments and issues with the politics and moderation of Facebook, but TikTok is more simple than Facebook, and it appeals at that level in the same way Instagram does.

spullara 5y ago

100% agree. The "for you page" is absolutely the best automatically curated feed I have ever seen.

purple_ferret 5y ago

I don't use it, but it looks so painful to me. I couldn't imagine having to 'stage' my life so frequently for the temporary enjoyment of people I do and don't know.

lovegoblin 5y ago
So...don't post? Every platform has (read: is primarily) lurkers.
- purple_ferret 5y ago
  Lurking doesn't seem all that appealing to me either. I just checked the tiktok homepage and the top two videos I saw were of a woman failing a sobriety test and a guy scaring a drive-through woman with a blow horn. I realize this isn't the content you might see once your algo is calculated, but it's obviously popular stuff on the platform and it just doesn't seem like very positive content for me.
  - lovegoblin 5y ago
    > it's obviously popular stuff on the platform and it just doesn't seem like very positive content for me. This is true of everything. If I look at the front page of YouTube in a private browser window, it's all bullshit too, obviously. But there's plenty of quality stuff on YouTube that I do like, ya know? The point is that the well is deep and broad enough that there is probably a whole community of people making content you'd like, and TikTok is extraordinarily good at finding that stuff for you sooner rather than later. I watch tons of diorama-building tutorials and recipe videos, for example. And I'm better both at painting and cooking as a result. Look: I'm not a shill, here. I'm not trying to convince you to get into TikTok (I mean? who cares, honestly) but I find a lot of talk about it tends to boil down to "kids these days" dismissiveness. And yeah I don't post anything there - nobody wants to see my grizzled old-ass face.
    - howaboutnope 5y ago
      > I find a lot of talk about it tends to boil down to "kids these days" dismissiveness These platforms are the products of megacorps, using incredibly sophisticated technology. Just contrast even a single CPU, versus, say, kids using their language faculties and markers to be funny or naughty, or using a bunch of stuff they found outside to invent a game. And then think of how many CPU and other things are involved in the pipeline. Kids being kids is as far from it as it could be. During the peak of the outrage about and the being in denial about Elsagate, there were plenty of people actually saying "these videos probably are this way because AI generated them based on the things toddlers like". People getting stabbed, raped, kids in trunks and crying over being separated from their family, endless body horror -- all brushed aside with "meh, they like that". Pointing to good content that one could pay attention to instead is a bit like saying "ignore the spam email from the Nigerian prince, you obviously aren't in the target demographic for it [let the people who are fend for themselves]". That's what people did with content literally aimed at children who couldn't even speak, why wouldn't they do it for teenagers, and of course for adults. This doesn't affect me, so it doesn't get shown to me, so it's fine. And while online mobs are certainly not a TikTok specialty, just to counter the general fluffy happy picture that so many comments here are painting based on things being fine for themselves: https://www.fluentlyforward.com/home4/my-experience-being-cancelled-on-tiktok https://www.fluentlyforward.com/home4/my-experience-being-ca... > But let me tell you, reading a hate comment about yourself that’s relatively true (I mean hey, I do have thin lips) said by 1 person stings at a level 1 on the pain chart. But reading hate comments about yourself that aren’t true, and are said by tens of thousands of people is….well, it’s a physical feeling. That’s the only way I can describe it. And then there is this: https://theintercept.com/2020/03/16/tiktok-app-moderators-users-discrimination/ https://theintercept.com/2020/03/16/tiktok-app-moderators-us... They weakly claim to no longer use these rules, without saying what rules they use instead. I would bet you that certain political topics are hard filtered though, and some things being censored while fluff being tailored to be addictive is a net negative effect in my books. It's not exclusive to TikTok, but that doesn't absolve it, just like TikTok doesn't absolve others.

nostromo 5y ago

It’s also much more positive. If I spend 20 minutes on TikTok I usually laugh and smile a few times. And regularly I’m impressed at human creativity. 20 minutes on Instagram or Facebook is usually either boring or leaves me comparing myself to others. 20 minutes on YouTube and I feel like I’ve watched 10 minutes of ads and 10 minutes of fluff. 20 minutes on Reddit and I hate the world.

slohr 5y ago
this! TikTok regularly leaves me inspired, and across many different creative realms: Amazing makeup, mindblowing parkour, beautiful original music and eye opening covers. Oh and some of the short comedy sketches have left me thoroughly incapacitated due to laughter. The list goes on for me. In general, I'm happier after viewing, even when the "you should stop watching too much TikTok guy" comes on.
arsome 5y ago
Yeah, no kidding with that reddit one, every time I go there I feel like everyone is just in constant fear or anger, especially going to subreddits for my city/state. I've near completely stopped using it due to this. Now I just spend way too much time on YouTube instead. It may be a terrible waste of time, but at least it's less angry and fearful.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  > every time I go there I feel like everyone is just in constant fear or anger Hell, HN feels like this often.
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
    I think about this post a lot: https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most_of_what_you_read_on_the_internet_is_written/ https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most...
- code_duck 5y ago
  Regional subs are the worst, for whatever reason. My theory is it's because they bring together people with nothing in common besides their geographic location. Even subs that should be neutral, fun or supportive have attitude problems. One about a game I'm playing, for instance, consists mainly of dramatic complaints with a feeling of impending doom.

ghawr 5y ago

Con. The algorithm seems to dish out similarly structured videos for all users. For example, it generally includes music that is extremely annoying. (That "No no no" song that is on every other video). At the same time, I also recognize how addictive the app is and because of it I would never download it myself.

psyc 5y ago
This is why I stopped looking at TikTok altogether. "Trends" just seem to be too enormous a use case for creators, to be avoided. I never wanted to know who Megan Thee Stallion or $NOT are, but here we are.
Kiro 5y ago
I get "No no no" videos but when I mentioned them to my friend who is using TikTok a lot she had never heard of them. I presumed that was too big of a trend not to leak into everyone's For You feed but I was wrong.
lovegoblin 5y ago
> That "No no no" song that is on every other video Oh, every generation of internet users has made repetitive memes like this; we just have more bandwidth now.

thisisnico 5y ago

Honestly, from a social media perspective, TikTok feels like the least toxic environment. Nobody is showing off their new homes, cars, kids, spending. It feels like a significantly reduced pressure to produce. Many of my friends are just consumers of content. Most of the content I'm seeing are memes and are funny. Even the advertising is more light hearted.

jackcosgrove 5y ago
I wonder if this is because TikTok targets a younger demographic that is digital native and practices better internet hygiene.
- gruez 5y ago
  >TikTok targets a younger demographic that is digital native and practices better internet hygiene. Or maybe they're a younger demographic that doesn't have "new homes, cars, kids, spending"? Also, the bit about "practices better internet hygiene" because they're "digital native" is kind of funny. Prior to the mid 2000s the standard advice was not to put public info about yourself online. "internet hygiene" was the norm, even when most people weren't "digital natives".
- keewee7 5y ago
  >younger demographic that is digital native and practices better internet hygiene Unfortunately 13-25 year olds are less tech sawy than a decade ago because they were raised on locked down platforms like iOS and Android.
Zandikar 5y ago
>TikTok feels like the least toxic environment. That's because It's the least commercialized of the social platforms and dominated by youth (for now). AKA we're at the end of it's honeymoon hip-new-platform phase. The company cannot maintain meteoric user-growth forever as there's only so many people in the world, and their primary target demographic that is responsible for much of their growth is already nearing saturation (the youth). As such, they're at an inflection point in their user growth and their operating costs have never been higher. Billions in revenue will only tempt investors for so long when they're still netting a loss in the billions a year and their growth curve is starting to relax. This will see the implementation of more dark patterns to monetize the revenue per user while simultaneously the users on the platform will search for any and every possible advantage to leverage their following for clout and profit (especially as the userbase ages into adulthood and has bills to pay) and ultimately we'll see the same poisoning of the well that we've seen with every other social media platform to date. Question is just how bad it will get.

code_duck 5y ago

Certain types of people have been trying to turn the internet into television since at least 1997. They're getting closer.

MSEmployed 5y ago

There is a time and place for everything. Connecting with all your friends and relatives (over Facebook) was a novelty but is cooling down. We are rather going back to the "celebrities model", admiring influencers on better suited platforms for asynchronous (fan>star, rather than friend<>friend) interactions: YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok.

stiltzkin 5y ago

Beware TikTok is also available for download as APK on Android TV, at the end now TV are smarts but the same outcome follows get stuck watching TV.