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Another long-time Mac user, who is also increasingly frustrated with how dumbed down & bloated OSX is becoming [I'm sticking on Mavericks for the foreseeable fu

Another long-time Mac user, who is also increasingly frustrated with how dumbed down & bloated OSX is becoming [I'm sticking on Mavericks for the foreseeable future and only 'upgraded' from El Capitán because more and more of my apps were breaking after applying updates]. With all OSX Finder's faults and all the annoyances of the OS, I still think it's miles ahead of any Linux distro I've tried to get on with. Two words "Quicklook" --OK. that's one word made of two. I find it incredible that no Linux desktop environment has something like this. Pressing spacebar to preview the content of a file without needing to open it first is something I do literally every single day and often multiple times. Why, in 2021, does every single Linux desktop require me to open a file first to see what's inside it? That's my biggest bugbear with Linux desktops. Other annoyances are more vague. Mostly to do with the inconsistencies in the interface. Coming from something like OSX which, for all its faults, presents a completely consistent user interface, every Linux desktop I've tried [even the polished ones like Ubuntu & Mint] always have those annoying glitches & inconsistencies which just scream 'Designed by Committee' [which I suppose they are, to an extent]. As regards apps; a big part of what I do is graphic design and that pretty much rules Linux out for anything work-related. Whatever you think of Adobe, Photoshop and Illustrator just blow The Gimp [dire!] and Inkscape [tolerable but clunky] out of the water. I did have high hopes that new kids on the block Affinity might bring their Photo and Designer [which actually do give Photoshop and Illustrator a run for their money] to Linux. But it seems they've decided to follow Adobe's lead and make thei offerings OSX & Windows only. About the only quality graphic design app I've seen available for Linux is Krita. But it's more of a digital painting app than an image manipulation one. And, of course, no vector graphics.

Schlaefer 5y ago
Maybe QuickLook outlived itself. It was a technology tailored to the HDD era of hardware, when complex apps required dozens of seconds to start. In a world were even LibreOffice cold-starts in under three seconds on middle of the road hardware QuickLook is just a familiar workflow instead of a necessity? Initially I missed QuickLook a lot after switching away from macOS, but now I haven't thought about it in years.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  I can't imagine not having access to QuickLook. It's not really about how quickly apps open so much as the UI—in a large folder of images or documents, I can use QuickLook to see what's inside each one, whereas without it I'd have to open a window for every document.
  - kitsunesoba 5y ago
    Yes, for me the killer aspect of Quicklook is being able to flip through dozens of documents in barely more time than it takes for my arrow keys to actuate. It’s wonderful for skimming through dozens of files quickly. Icons that accurately represent content on more than just images are great too. Aside from that, QuickLook remains one of the few examples of a generic extensible document reader in modern operating systems. The way it gains the ability to read new types of files just by virtue of the owning app’s bundle being present on the system (no installation necessary, and it goes away when you delete the app) makes so much sense, and it’s a shame that there’s no equivalent on Windows and Linux.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      > QuickLook remains one of the few examples of a generic extensible document reader in modern operating systems. ...were there other ones in classic operating systems? QuickTime <= 10.2 did let you install third-party components (I wrote one recently), but what else was there?
      - kitsunesoba 5y ago
        There was OpenDoc on classic Mac OS, and I think maybe COM on the Microsoft side of the fence? Not as well versed on Windows stuff though so that may be a misread on my part.
      - mixmastamyk 5y ago
        The Amiga pioneered this with datatypes.
- 5y ago
brnt 5y ago
> Why, in 2021, does every single Linux desktop require me to open a file first to see what's inside it? KDE's file manager has a previewpane that you can enable if you wish.
- bitwize 5y ago
  Why should I have to enable it? There shouldn't be any goddamn high places!!!
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    It's not hidden in a disused lavatory behind a sign bearing the words "beware the leopard". Click menu button view panels "Information" Also F11 If remembers the state globally so if you leave it open it will always be there when you open a file manager window if you toggle it off it will be hidden next time too. It's not open by default perhaps because not everyone regards it as maximally useful. Say I open a file manager and have it sized to 1/4 of a 24" 1080p screen. On the left hand side of the screen is a panel which lists common and places and other items. This leaves a space for 15 icons on the screen at 48px size big enough to comfortably read and note some details in a preview. Opening the information pane reduces that to 10 icons greatly reducing the space available for the main purpose of the application. What if I open it to the full size of the screen? I can now view 56 icons at 80px where now they actually are a pretty decent size to see whats in them in their own icon. I think most of the time having the info panel shown would decrease the utility of the window.
    - distances 5y ago
      > It's not open by default perhaps because not everyone regards it as maximally useful. Indeed, I don't have any use for information or preview panes, I disable them all when encountering. IMHO they are a distraction from the content itself and make the view arrangement clumsy.
  - brnt 5y ago
    Because I would hate for it to take up screen real estate. On my machine, starting apps to look into files isnt slow.
deltron3030 5y ago
>About the only quality graphic design app I've seen available for Linux is Krita. But it's more of a digital painting app than an image manipulation one. And, of course, no vector graphics. Well there's the web based Figma, somebody even created an unofficial desktop app for Linux. Figma has plugins, tons of them for many graphic design tasks. It blows the Affinity stuff out of the water imo.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  The big caveat with Figma is that you don’t full own your data with it. It technically lets you export, but the file format is undocumented and subject to change at any time. Additionally, it’s very much geared specifically toward UI design and prototyping, whereas something like Affinity Designer or Sketch also work well for generic screen-targeted vector work.
  - michaelpb 5y ago
    I've been using PenPot[1] in lieu of Figma all this year, which is an free/libre Figma-clone. For my particular usage it's been great, I prefer it to the others I've tried recently. However, it's still in heavy development, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are missing features compared to more mature offerings. [1] https://penpot.app/ https://penpot.app/
  - deltron3030 5y ago
    > The big caveat with Figma is that you don’t full own your data with it. It technically lets you export, but the file format is undocumented and subject to change at any time. True for project files, but you can export images and SVGs. > it’s very much geared specifically toward UI design and prototyping, whereas something like Affinity Designer or Sketch also work well for generic screen-targeted vector work. That's where the plugin ecosystem comes in. It's quite usable for simple/modern vector work that's more component oriented graphic design than hands on illustration.
okramcivokram 5y ago
I think the quicklook is available in gnome. I'm not sure how it compares to the osx one because I don't use anything apple, but selecting a file and pressing space in nautilus behaves as I expect quicklook to work. A preview of the file is shown. It doesn't work for all file types but the common ones (images, documents, videos, text files etc.) are shown. I'm on GNOME 3.38.4 on Debian sid.
- seltzered_ 5y ago
  Apparently Gnome Sushi does this similar to Quicklook, wasn't installed by default though (on 3.38.4 on Ubuntu).
peterburkimsher 5y ago
Here's my story about the features I lost between 10.8 -> 10.9 -> 10.11 -> 10.13. tl;dr Web Sharing, Notes sync, iCal sync, HFS+, apps sync. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26245164 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26245164 I gained NVME drivers for using larger SSDs, so tolerated the changes, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to make the leap to ARM M1 if Big Sur is holding me back so much.
- Datagenerator 5y ago
  ZFS?
  - peterburkimsher 5y ago
    All I need from a filesystem is to be able to mount it and read and write files. APFS isn't writeable on Linux or Windows without additional drivers. Nor is HFS+. It's quite inconvenient. If ZFS was usable in that way, I'd consider it! But for now I still have to keep my boot volume as HFS+ so I can at least read files, and use FAT32 to shuttle data around.
milderworkacc 5y ago
If we're doing the 'showstoppers on the Linux migration', I must yet again ask why no other file manager on any other operating system can do as Finder has been able to do since the 90s and display the total recursive size of a directory in bytes! The combination of this feature (including sort-by this directory size when listing dir contents) and quicklook makes the Mac the only place I ever want to actually manage files, instead of dumping them in Downloads and declaring bankruptcy. Two basic features that would have me on Linux in a heartbeat. I'm begging you! (Ironically, Windows Search is so useless compared to Spotlight that the give-up-and-dump-and-search approach works best on Mac too...)
- Datagenerator 5y ago
  TotalCommander?
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Terminal? Maybe not very Mac. ;-p
eitland 5y ago
> Mostly to do with the inconsistencies in the interface. Coming from something like OSX which, for all its faults, presents a completely consistent user interface, I used Mac OS X from 2009 to 2012. It was sold as consistent and keyboard friendly back then. However: Describing a desktop interface where selecting a single word using the keyboard needs a different keystroke in different apps, that is - rich. Maybe this is fixed now but back then even official applications had different ways to select a word using the keyboard: in one it was cmd+shift+arrowkey in the next it was ctrl-shift-arrowkey or even fn-shift-arrowkey. Especially infuriating because one of the most used ones in other applications meant "navigate back" in Safari. Meanwhile in Windows and Linux ctrl+arrowkey always moves one word and ctrl+shift+arrowkey almost always (hi Excel!) selects a full word. Maybe it is fixed now. But I'll never let a Mac user lecture me about consistency again.
- geraneum 5y ago
  I’ve had Mac since Snow Leopard, and recently Fedora on my desktop. In macOS command+arrow jumps to the begging or end of the line and option+arrow jumps words. If you hold down shift in addition, the words get selected. It has “always” been like this consistently!
  - eitland 5y ago
    I definitely used Snow Leopard, it was released in 2009. This was a problem in Snow Leopard and probably the two next releases as well: I always upgraded as soon as possible.
- beoh 5y ago
  Consistency has really gone downhill in macOS, but thankfully if there are menu items for those actions you can override the binding in the settings app.

Schlaefer 5y ago

Maybe QuickLook outlived itself. It was a technology tailored to the HDD era of hardware, when complex apps required dozens of seconds to start. In a world were even LibreOffice cold-starts in under three seconds on middle of the road hardware QuickLook is just a familiar workflow instead of a necessity? Initially I missed QuickLook a lot after switching away from macOS, but now I haven't thought about it in years.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
I can't imagine not having access to QuickLook. It's not really about how quickly apps open so much as the UI—in a large folder of images or documents, I can use QuickLook to see what's inside each one, whereas without it I'd have to open a window for every document.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  Yes, for me the killer aspect of Quicklook is being able to flip through dozens of documents in barely more time than it takes for my arrow keys to actuate. It’s wonderful for skimming through dozens of files quickly. Icons that accurately represent content on more than just images are great too. Aside from that, QuickLook remains one of the few examples of a generic extensible document reader in modern operating systems. The way it gains the ability to read new types of files just by virtue of the owning app’s bundle being present on the system (no installation necessary, and it goes away when you delete the app) makes so much sense, and it’s a shame that there’s no equivalent on Windows and Linux.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    > QuickLook remains one of the few examples of a generic extensible document reader in modern operating systems. ...were there other ones in classic operating systems? QuickTime <= 10.2 did let you install third-party components (I wrote one recently), but what else was there?
    - kitsunesoba 5y ago
      There was OpenDoc on classic Mac OS, and I think maybe COM on the Microsoft side of the fence? Not as well versed on Windows stuff though so that may be a misread on my part.
    - mixmastamyk 5y ago
      The Amiga pioneered this with datatypes.
5y ago

brnt 5y ago

> Why, in 2021, does every single Linux desktop require me to open a file first to see what's inside it? KDE's file manager has a previewpane that you can enable if you wish.

bitwize 5y ago
Why should I have to enable it? There shouldn't be any goddamn high places!!!
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  It's not hidden in a disused lavatory behind a sign bearing the words "beware the leopard". Click menu button view panels "Information" Also F11 If remembers the state globally so if you leave it open it will always be there when you open a file manager window if you toggle it off it will be hidden next time too. It's not open by default perhaps because not everyone regards it as maximally useful. Say I open a file manager and have it sized to 1/4 of a 24" 1080p screen. On the left hand side of the screen is a panel which lists common and places and other items. This leaves a space for 15 icons on the screen at 48px size big enough to comfortably read and note some details in a preview. Opening the information pane reduces that to 10 icons greatly reducing the space available for the main purpose of the application. What if I open it to the full size of the screen? I can now view 56 icons at 80px where now they actually are a pretty decent size to see whats in them in their own icon. I think most of the time having the info panel shown would decrease the utility of the window.
  - distances 5y ago
    > It's not open by default perhaps because not everyone regards it as maximally useful. Indeed, I don't have any use for information or preview panes, I disable them all when encountering. IMHO they are a distraction from the content itself and make the view arrangement clumsy.
- brnt 5y ago
  Because I would hate for it to take up screen real estate. On my machine, starting apps to look into files isnt slow.

deltron3030 5y ago

>About the only quality graphic design app I've seen available for Linux is Krita. But it's more of a digital painting app than an image manipulation one. And, of course, no vector graphics. Well there's the web based Figma, somebody even created an unofficial desktop app for Linux. Figma has plugins, tons of them for many graphic design tasks. It blows the Affinity stuff out of the water imo.

kitsunesoba 5y ago
The big caveat with Figma is that you don’t full own your data with it. It technically lets you export, but the file format is undocumented and subject to change at any time. Additionally, it’s very much geared specifically toward UI design and prototyping, whereas something like Affinity Designer or Sketch also work well for generic screen-targeted vector work.
- michaelpb 5y ago
  I've been using PenPot[1] in lieu of Figma all this year, which is an free/libre Figma-clone. For my particular usage it's been great, I prefer it to the others I've tried recently. However, it's still in heavy development, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are missing features compared to more mature offerings. [1] https://penpot.app/ https://penpot.app/
- deltron3030 5y ago
  > The big caveat with Figma is that you don’t full own your data with it. It technically lets you export, but the file format is undocumented and subject to change at any time. True for project files, but you can export images and SVGs. > it’s very much geared specifically toward UI design and prototyping, whereas something like Affinity Designer or Sketch also work well for generic screen-targeted vector work. That's where the plugin ecosystem comes in. It's quite usable for simple/modern vector work that's more component oriented graphic design than hands on illustration.

okramcivokram 5y ago

I think the quicklook is available in gnome. I'm not sure how it compares to the osx one because I don't use anything apple, but selecting a file and pressing space in nautilus behaves as I expect quicklook to work. A preview of the file is shown. It doesn't work for all file types but the common ones (images, documents, videos, text files etc.) are shown. I'm on GNOME 3.38.4 on Debian sid.

seltzered_ 5y ago
Apparently Gnome Sushi does this similar to Quicklook, wasn't installed by default though (on 3.38.4 on Ubuntu).

peterburkimsher 5y ago

Here's my story about the features I lost between 10.8 -> 10.9 -> 10.11 -> 10.13. tl;dr Web Sharing, Notes sync, iCal sync, HFS+, apps sync. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26245164 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26245164 I gained NVME drivers for using larger SSDs, so tolerated the changes, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to make the leap to ARM M1 if Big Sur is holding me back so much.

Datagenerator 5y ago
ZFS?
- peterburkimsher 5y ago
  All I need from a filesystem is to be able to mount it and read and write files. APFS isn't writeable on Linux or Windows without additional drivers. Nor is HFS+. It's quite inconvenient. If ZFS was usable in that way, I'd consider it! But for now I still have to keep my boot volume as HFS+ so I can at least read files, and use FAT32 to shuttle data around.

milderworkacc 5y ago

If we're doing the 'showstoppers on the Linux migration', I must yet again ask why no other file manager on any other operating system can do as Finder has been able to do since the 90s and display the total recursive size of a directory in bytes! The combination of this feature (including sort-by this directory size when listing dir contents) and quicklook makes the Mac the only place I ever want to actually manage files, instead of dumping them in Downloads and declaring bankruptcy. Two basic features that would have me on Linux in a heartbeat. I'm begging you! (Ironically, Windows Search is so useless compared to Spotlight that the give-up-and-dump-and-search approach works best on Mac too...)

Datagenerator 5y ago
TotalCommander?
CRConrad 5y ago
Terminal? Maybe not very Mac. ;-p

eitland 5y ago

> Mostly to do with the inconsistencies in the interface. Coming from something like OSX which, for all its faults, presents a completely consistent user interface, I used Mac OS X from 2009 to 2012. It was sold as consistent and keyboard friendly back then. However: Describing a desktop interface where selecting a single word using the keyboard needs a different keystroke in different apps, that is - rich. Maybe this is fixed now but back then even official applications had different ways to select a word using the keyboard: in one it was cmd+shift+arrowkey in the next it was ctrl-shift-arrowkey or even fn-shift-arrowkey. Especially infuriating because one of the most used ones in other applications meant "navigate back" in Safari. Meanwhile in Windows and Linux ctrl+arrowkey always moves one word and ctrl+shift+arrowkey almost always (hi Excel!) selects a full word. Maybe it is fixed now. But I'll never let a Mac user lecture me about consistency again.

geraneum 5y ago
I’ve had Mac since Snow Leopard, and recently Fedora on my desktop. In macOS command+arrow jumps to the begging or end of the line and option+arrow jumps words. If you hold down shift in addition, the words get selected. It has “always” been like this consistently!
- eitland 5y ago
  I definitely used Snow Leopard, it was released in 2009. This was a problem in Snow Leopard and probably the two next releases as well: I always upgraded as soon as possible.
beoh 5y ago
Consistency has really gone downhill in macOS, but thankfully if there are menu items for those actions you can override the binding in the settings app.