5 ms·

It's nice to see North Carolina attracting people. I moved here in 2019 (from Ontario, Canada), and have been pleasently surprised at the quality of life, abund

It's nice to see North Carolina attracting people. I moved here in 2019 (from Ontario, Canada), and have been pleasently surprised at the quality of life, abundent nature, and half-decent housing prices (that last part may not last for long). My view of NC has changed from just another southern state that I wouldn't think much about, to a possible long term home. Of course like many states my experience is heavily biased by my location within the state (Research Triangle Park, Raleigh/Durham area). The only major downside so far has been that most of the tech jobs are concentrated in med-tech, advertising, or sales, however with Google/Apple coming to town hopefully that'll change.

nine_zeros 5y ago
No No ssshhh. Don't spoil it. NC is terrible. Stay away.
TMWNN 5y ago
This is a story familiar to every Canadian, and to many Australians and Britons: Mid-career executive accepts job offer in the US in Charlotte, Dallas, Phoenix, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, or Tampa. Is excited about the opportunity and the raise in salary, and curious about living in a different country, but a little nervous about moving to a "right wing Republican" state "without healthcare". A few months in, the reports back to friends and family change. More and more mention of the "amazing" house they found in the suburbs with an outdoor pool (!) that is so much less expensive than in Toronto or Vancouver, the "fantastic" school the kids attend with sports teams and cheerleading and other afterschool activities, and—especially—how unbelievably cheap everything is at the supermarket, mall, and gas station. That family is never moving back to Canada. This happens over and over again.
- izend 5y ago
  Very true, I believe this is why our Federal gov is aiming for 400k new immigrants per year, they know there is a large brain drain south.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    How does that address the brain drain? From my experience, it's not uncommon to file for both the US and Canada as a backup. What's the strategy for matching the top performers that are leaving?
    - TMWNN 5y ago
      >What's the strategy for matching the top performers that are leaving? You've hit on the problem with the Canadian governmental strategy that izend mentioned; those who leave aren't being replaced on a 1:1 basis in terms of quality. In a survey of scientists from 16 countries (<http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/tech-careers/the-global-brain-trade http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/tech-careers/the-global-bra...>), the US is the top destination from 13 of the 15 others and the #2 choice from the other two. If you are a Canadian scientist, there is a 16% chance (<https://np.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/37lgxg/the_global_brain_trade/ https://np.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/37lgxg/the_...>) that you will move to the US. That's not "16% of all Canadian scientists that move out of the country move to the US". Let me repeat: *16% of all Canadian scientists move to the US.* More to the point, they're also likely to be among the top Canadian scientists, too. By comparison, 5% of all American scientists move to another country, of which 32% go to Canada, so about 1.6-1.7% total. Since the US has nine times more people, that means that in absolute numbers the 1.7% of American scientists is about equal to the 16% of Canadian scientists, but there is no reason to think that the 1.7% makes up the top tier of American scientists; why would the best move north of the border? In other words, the US is receiving the best of Canadian scientists in exchange for an equal number of its non-best.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > A few months in, the reports back to friends and family change. More and more mention of the "amazing" house they found in the suburbs with an outdoor pool (!) that is so much less expensive than in Toronto or Vancouver, the "fantastic" school the kids attend with sports teams and cheerleading and other afterschool activities, and—especially—how unbelievably cheap everything is at the supermarket, mall, and gas station. I wonder, why doesn't Canada simply... compete?
  - TMWNN 5y ago
    >I wonder, why doesn't Canada simply... compete? It's not that simple. The cities I mentioned are all in the US sunbelt, and Canada (and the northeast and northern midwest US) can't compete with the southern and western US's. The sunbelt has cheaper land, as well; Vancouver (the only part of Canada with competitive weather to the US sunbelt) is jammed into the Fraser Valley between the Pacific Ocean and the mountains. The prairie provinces have plenty of land (which is partly why Edmonton and Calgary are growing so quickly), but have terrible winters. On the other hand, the weather and cheaper land don't wholly explain the competitive differential, either. It's not unusual for an American to move from New York or Boston to San Francisco, Dallas, Phoenix, or Miami, or a Canadian to move from Toronto or Montreal to any of those cities. It's also not unusual for someone to move from San Francisco, Dallas, Phoenix, or Miami to New York or Boston, despite the latter cities' colder winters. It is unusual for someone to move from NY, Boston, San Francisco, Dallas, Phoenix, Miami, etc. to move to Toronto or Montreal; I've calculated elsewhere (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25367731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25367731>) that an average Canadian is 27 times more likely to move to the US than an average American is to move to Canada. Another differential is cost of living. Why Canadians pay much more and have access to less despite living in a country that is 95% culturally, economically, and politically identical to the US, I do not know. I didn't fully understand the disparity until I read the amazing stories in a Reddit discussion. victorn72's account (<http://np.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1ueai3/why_are_our_prices_so_much_higher_than_the_us/cehewa1?context=3 http://np.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1ueai3/why_are_our_pr...>) caused my jaw to drop open. This is why every large US border town along the Canadian border has malls where, every day (in normal circumstances with the border fully open) you see hordes of Canadian shoppers in parking lots frantically opening sealed electronics and clothing to try to bypass import duties when returning home.
foobiekr 5y ago
I've looked at north carolina as a post-california destination. The crazy policy on PFAS in the water is really the biggest downside - https://www.pfasaction.org/northcarolina https://www.pfasaction.org/northcarolina and many others.
- bsagdiyev 5y ago
  Not sure that applies to the entire state. Our municipal water keeps an eye on it and tries to source from places that don’t have high levels. None is better than some but that is a silly reason to not consider a place, especially with filtration being capable of removing it in the worse cases.
bsagdiyev 5y ago
Seconded, we moved to RTP area in February and have fallen in love with the state already. The weather is much different than CA and we’re still adjusting (107 heat index today!) but it’s great actually getting rain and thunderstorms. Anecdotally but I’ve noticed a lot more California, Arizona and New York plates even since we’ve gotten here so it seems like the secret is getting out.

nine_zeros 5y ago

No No ssshhh. Don't spoil it. NC is terrible. Stay away.

TMWNN 5y ago

This is a story familiar to every Canadian, and to many Australians and Britons: Mid-career executive accepts job offer in the US in Charlotte, Dallas, Phoenix, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, or Tampa. Is excited about the opportunity and the raise in salary, and curious about living in a different country, but a little nervous about moving to a "right wing Republican" state "without healthcare". A few months in, the reports back to friends and family change. More and more mention of the "amazing" house they found in the suburbs with an outdoor pool (!) that is so much less expensive than in Toronto or Vancouver, the "fantastic" school the kids attend with sports teams and cheerleading and other afterschool activities, and—especially—how unbelievably cheap everything is at the supermarket, mall, and gas station. That family is never moving back to Canada. This happens over and over again.

izend 5y ago
Very true, I believe this is why our Federal gov is aiming for 400k new immigrants per year, they know there is a large brain drain south.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  How does that address the brain drain? From my experience, it's not uncommon to file for both the US and Canada as a backup. What's the strategy for matching the top performers that are leaving?
  - TMWNN 5y ago
    >What's the strategy for matching the top performers that are leaving? You've hit on the problem with the Canadian governmental strategy that izend mentioned; those who leave aren't being replaced on a 1:1 basis in terms of quality. In a survey of scientists from 16 countries (<http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/tech-careers/the-global-brain-trade http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/tech-careers/the-global-bra...>), the US is the top destination from 13 of the 15 others and the #2 choice from the other two. If you are a Canadian scientist, there is a 16% chance (<https://np.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/37lgxg/the_global_brain_trade/ https://np.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/37lgxg/the_...>) that you will move to the US. That's not "16% of all Canadian scientists that move out of the country move to the US". Let me repeat: *16% of all Canadian scientists move to the US.* More to the point, they're also likely to be among the top Canadian scientists, too. By comparison, 5% of all American scientists move to another country, of which 32% go to Canada, so about 1.6-1.7% total. Since the US has nine times more people, that means that in absolute numbers the 1.7% of American scientists is about equal to the 16% of Canadian scientists, but there is no reason to think that the 1.7% makes up the top tier of American scientists; why would the best move north of the border? In other words, the US is receiving the best of Canadian scientists in exchange for an equal number of its non-best.
908B64B197 5y ago
> A few months in, the reports back to friends and family change. More and more mention of the "amazing" house they found in the suburbs with an outdoor pool (!) that is so much less expensive than in Toronto or Vancouver, the "fantastic" school the kids attend with sports teams and cheerleading and other afterschool activities, and—especially—how unbelievably cheap everything is at the supermarket, mall, and gas station. I wonder, why doesn't Canada simply... compete?
- TMWNN 5y ago
  >I wonder, why doesn't Canada simply... compete? It's not that simple. The cities I mentioned are all in the US sunbelt, and Canada (and the northeast and northern midwest US) can't compete with the southern and western US's. The sunbelt has cheaper land, as well; Vancouver (the only part of Canada with competitive weather to the US sunbelt) is jammed into the Fraser Valley between the Pacific Ocean and the mountains. The prairie provinces have plenty of land (which is partly why Edmonton and Calgary are growing so quickly), but have terrible winters. On the other hand, the weather and cheaper land don't wholly explain the competitive differential, either. It's not unusual for an American to move from New York or Boston to San Francisco, Dallas, Phoenix, or Miami, or a Canadian to move from Toronto or Montreal to any of those cities. It's also not unusual for someone to move from San Francisco, Dallas, Phoenix, or Miami to New York or Boston, despite the latter cities' colder winters. It is unusual for someone to move from NY, Boston, San Francisco, Dallas, Phoenix, Miami, etc. to move to Toronto or Montreal; I've calculated elsewhere (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25367731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25367731>) that an average Canadian is 27 times more likely to move to the US than an average American is to move to Canada. Another differential is cost of living. Why Canadians pay much more and have access to less despite living in a country that is 95% culturally, economically, and politically identical to the US, I do not know. I didn't fully understand the disparity until I read the amazing stories in a Reddit discussion. victorn72's account (<http://np.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1ueai3/why_are_our_prices_so_much_higher_than_the_us/cehewa1?context=3 http://np.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1ueai3/why_are_our_pr...>) caused my jaw to drop open. This is why every large US border town along the Canadian border has malls where, every day (in normal circumstances with the border fully open) you see hordes of Canadian shoppers in parking lots frantically opening sealed electronics and clothing to try to bypass import duties when returning home.

foobiekr 5y ago

I've looked at north carolina as a post-california destination. The crazy policy on PFAS in the water is really the biggest downside - https://www.pfasaction.org/northcarolina https://www.pfasaction.org/northcarolina and many others.

bsagdiyev 5y ago
Not sure that applies to the entire state. Our municipal water keeps an eye on it and tries to source from places that don’t have high levels. None is better than some but that is a silly reason to not consider a place, especially with filtration being capable of removing it in the worse cases.

bsagdiyev 5y ago

Seconded, we moved to RTP area in February and have fallen in love with the state already. The weather is much different than CA and we’re still adjusting (107 heat index today!) but it’s great actually getting rain and thunderstorms. Anecdotally but I’ve noticed a lot more California, Arizona and New York plates even since we’ve gotten here so it seems like the secret is getting out.