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I can’t imagine why people might be discontent… All that’s really being asked of us is to give up all our productive years in service to people with no ethics,

I can’t imagine why people might be discontent… All that’s really being asked of us is to give up all our productive years in service to people with no ethics, to make them richer. People who are more than happy to use you up and toss your corpse on the pile when you die. Is that really too much? How dare you think you deserve something for your toils. Your masters have worked you incredibly hard — harder than you thought possible! Why should you get the credit when their wrist is sore from cracking the whip? You didn’t even think yourself capable, and look what you can do with proper motivation! Now return to work, or you might find yourself without healthcare in a pandemic.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago
Honestly, this sentiment is valid for most of the working class. But in our industry, it's not the majority of cases. I feel well compensated and not overworked. Now, is my work fulfilling? No.
- kuraudo 5y ago
  How can we determine what the percentage is? I'm also in your boat in feeling well compensated and not overworked, but I anecdotally feel like I'm very fortunate in this regard despite what I thought was the norm.
- bradly 5y ago
  I left work this year and while not overworked, I do feel like employers could increase my time off by 50% while reducing my time-in-seat by 20% but choose not to. I probably would have kept working with more time off, but 3-4 weeks off a year, just wasn't enough for the life my family and I wanted wanted to have. Compensation was the hardest thing to leave, but when looking at the life I wanted to live I realized I had what I needed to to full-fill that life now. Mentally it is very hard, though. I had a great engineering job at Apple and after over 4 years I had a sizable chunk of RSU's to walk away from. What helped me with the RSU's was realizing that eventually I would leave–whether now or in 20 years–so walking away from RSU's is non-avoidable so I tried to frame it as a sunk cost.
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    I feel lucky as I now I have 5 paid weeks off a year, which is very generous by North American standards. It's true time is more valuable than money. However at this point I am very sick of being at home. Re: the RSUs that is a good point. I've been at Google for coming up on 10 years, and one thing that keeps me here is the RSU "handcuffs", for sure.
- pornel 5y ago
  It can be both true that you're earning many times more than an average worker, and still severely underpaid compared to the value you've created for your employer. The wealth inequality in the world is just staggering. You may be well off to the point money is not an problem for you, and still be piss-poor compared to your company's CEO and shareholders.
- RestlessMind 5y ago
  > But in our industry, it's not the majority of cases. I feel well compensated and not overworked. If you are inclined to compare your compensation to compensation of workers in other industries, take a minute and compare the compensation of your c-suite with those in other industries as well. You will notice that you are underpaid and massive amount of gains are flowing to your execs.
- shadowwolf007 5y ago
  On the flip side, the only time I've ever felt like my work was fulfilling and valuable was when was under-compensated and insanely overworked (like 80 hours was a pretty reasonable work week).
mgh2 5y ago
This is a consequence on a shift in society's values and culture: https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e
- norov 5y ago
  That article cannot be read unless you install their app or create an account. A shift in society's values indeed.
newfriend 5y ago
Sorry, but what's the alternative exactly? Force people who do actually work, produce, create, etc to pay for people who think working is beneath them? Should you be given free shit simply because you exist? If you don't want to work for someone else, then start a business. If you don't want to work at all, then figure out how you're going to live. No one is forcing you to do anything.
- kuraudo 5y ago
  I think the animus is against overworking people for low pay with virtual monopoly protection against labor unions or alternatives, although I'm sure there are those who also advocate for universal basic income. I'm not sure that I believe cut-throat capitalism is the only answer, but I feel your sentiment that the alternative solutions are not well presented at the moment.
  - jshen 5y ago
    Most of Europe is a good example of alternatives.
- claudiulodro 5y ago
  > Should you be given free shit simply because you exist? Yes? > Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. > No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. > Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality. > Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. > Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay. > etc. > https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...
  - 5y ago
MrFoof 5y ago
Don't even get me started on these recent, "safety" demands either. Now that some number of peasants have died of this plague, many of them don't want to work under the conditions that make them vulnerable to it. The utter villains!
bississippi 5y ago
But but there is free sandwiches and a ping pong table so you can come to our company and “change the world” and “build back better”
setr 5y ago
>All that’s really being asked of us is to give up all our productive years in service to people with no ethics, to make them richer. People who are more than happy to use you up and toss your corpse on the pile when you die. Is that really too much? It's been that way for thousands of years -- what's new now?
- ornornor 5y ago
  People have been suffering and dying in terrible ways since the dawn of time. And yet we’re trying to improve on this to reduce suffering and death. What’s your point?
  - setr 5y ago
    because events are transpiring now, supposedly based on this, yet the described boat is the same from 50 years ago, 20 years ago, and even 2 years ago.
- tommiegannert 5y ago
  Echo chambers used to be the local pub. Now it's an entire subreddit. Thousands of years ago, the upper class could kill you if you disobeyed. The stakes aren't as high nowadays. Yay for separating courts from employers. An insane amount of capital looking for ROI probably also helps put people in a spot where they can afford to take a chance.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

Honestly, this sentiment is valid for most of the working class. But in our industry, it's not the majority of cases. I feel well compensated and not overworked. Now, is my work fulfilling? No.

kuraudo 5y ago
How can we determine what the percentage is? I'm also in your boat in feeling well compensated and not overworked, but I anecdotally feel like I'm very fortunate in this regard despite what I thought was the norm.
bradly 5y ago
I left work this year and while not overworked, I do feel like employers could increase my time off by 50% while reducing my time-in-seat by 20% but choose not to. I probably would have kept working with more time off, but 3-4 weeks off a year, just wasn't enough for the life my family and I wanted wanted to have. Compensation was the hardest thing to leave, but when looking at the life I wanted to live I realized I had what I needed to to full-fill that life now. Mentally it is very hard, though. I had a great engineering job at Apple and after over 4 years I had a sizable chunk of RSU's to walk away from. What helped me with the RSU's was realizing that eventually I would leave–whether now or in 20 years–so walking away from RSU's is non-avoidable so I tried to frame it as a sunk cost.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  I feel lucky as I now I have 5 paid weeks off a year, which is very generous by North American standards. It's true time is more valuable than money. However at this point I am very sick of being at home. Re: the RSUs that is a good point. I've been at Google for coming up on 10 years, and one thing that keeps me here is the RSU "handcuffs", for sure.
pornel 5y ago
It can be both true that you're earning many times more than an average worker, and still severely underpaid compared to the value you've created for your employer. The wealth inequality in the world is just staggering. You may be well off to the point money is not an problem for you, and still be piss-poor compared to your company's CEO and shareholders.
RestlessMind 5y ago
> But in our industry, it's not the majority of cases. I feel well compensated and not overworked. If you are inclined to compare your compensation to compensation of workers in other industries, take a minute and compare the compensation of your c-suite with those in other industries as well. You will notice that you are underpaid and massive amount of gains are flowing to your execs.
shadowwolf007 5y ago
On the flip side, the only time I've ever felt like my work was fulfilling and valuable was when was under-compensated and insanely overworked (like 80 hours was a pretty reasonable work week).

mgh2 5y ago

This is a consequence on a shift in society's values and culture: https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e

norov 5y ago
That article cannot be read unless you install their app or create an account. A shift in society's values indeed.

newfriend 5y ago

Sorry, but what's the alternative exactly? Force people who do actually work, produce, create, etc to pay for people who think working is beneath them? Should you be given free shit simply because you exist? If you don't want to work for someone else, then start a business. If you don't want to work at all, then figure out how you're going to live. No one is forcing you to do anything.

kuraudo 5y ago
I think the animus is against overworking people for low pay with virtual monopoly protection against labor unions or alternatives, although I'm sure there are those who also advocate for universal basic income. I'm not sure that I believe cut-throat capitalism is the only answer, but I feel your sentiment that the alternative solutions are not well presented at the moment.
- jshen 5y ago
  Most of Europe is a good example of alternatives.
claudiulodro 5y ago
> Should you be given free shit simply because you exist? Yes? > Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. > No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. > Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality. > Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. > Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay. > etc. > https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...
- 5y ago

MrFoof 5y ago

Don't even get me started on these recent, "safety" demands either. Now that some number of peasants have died of this plague, many of them don't want to work under the conditions that make them vulnerable to it. The utter villains!

bississippi 5y ago

But but there is free sandwiches and a ping pong table so you can come to our company and “change the world” and “build back better”

setr 5y ago

>All that’s really being asked of us is to give up all our productive years in service to people with no ethics, to make them richer. People who are more than happy to use you up and toss your corpse on the pile when you die. Is that really too much? It's been that way for thousands of years -- what's new now?

ornornor 5y ago
People have been suffering and dying in terrible ways since the dawn of time. And yet we’re trying to improve on this to reduce suffering and death. What’s your point?
- setr 5y ago
  because events are transpiring now, supposedly based on this, yet the described boat is the same from 50 years ago, 20 years ago, and even 2 years ago.
tommiegannert 5y ago
Echo chambers used to be the local pub. Now it's an entire subreddit. Thousands of years ago, the upper class could kill you if you disobeyed. The stakes aren't as high nowadays. Yay for separating courts from employers. An insane amount of capital looking for ROI probably also helps put people in a spot where they can afford to take a chance.