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That’s very insightful - when I switched to US high school, the approach to math was baffling - everyone had programmable graphing calculators, whereas I wasn’t

That’s very insightful - when I switched to US high school, the approach to math was baffling - everyone had programmable graphing calculators, whereas I wasn’t allowed any calculator at all, and took a lot longer to solve the most basic problems. Most questions were answered by the teacher as “it’s a formula, you follow it and memorize it” (which sounded ridiculous to me for the exact reasons above - I was taught to understand the basis first, then the applications).

starkd 5y ago
I never understood why graphing calculators were required for basic calculus or math courses. Always wondered if it was part of a marketing deal with the company that manufactured them. The course is said to require a particular make and model of graphing calculator.
- Isthatablackgsd 5y ago
  I believe it is more of a standardization of knowledge when picking the tool for mathematics. TI-83 calculator is common and easily to have all the students to use the same calculator and provides various approach of how to solve it. If one student is a outlier (like using HP calculator), then it could be an issue since the instructor only have the knowledge of using TI-83 (or its variants), the instructor couldn't help that student since HP and other graphic calculators have different inputs, layouts, etc. And not everyone is good at solving math alone without the aid of the calculator. Some people simply can't solve mathematics at all, maybe up to multiplication/division level is the best they can do. I am not good with mathematics myself and struggles with some advanced algebra. It is not the matter of trying to solve, it is matter of memorization of mathematics formula and equations that US Education drilled down so hard which is ironic when they said that calculators are forbidden to use during the exam while they are encouraging to use the calculators in class and homework... Their pedagogy is fucked and hypocritical.
  - sologoub 5y ago
    Sorry you had such an experience! There really is a lot to unpack here. As the article describes, memorization of “formulas” doesn’t actually work for my students and leaves those that it “worked” disadvantaged in future learning. My personal guess is the “not being good at math” originates from this, at least in part. It’s a confidence killer for sure that on one had you are being forced to do something unnatural (memorize weird looking formulas) and on the other give a somewhat easy, yet demeaning, way out by saying “it’s ok, you are just not good at math”. The calculator to study and no calculator for the test is even more ridiculous - students are put in a high pressure situation without the very tool/crutch they came to rely upon. If anything, the inverse might make more sense - homework you have a lot more time and less pressure, so try working it out on paper. Test is timed, so it’s ok to use a calculator aid, so long as you show your work.
    - Isthatablackgsd 5y ago
      > My personal guess is the “not being good at math” originates from this, at least in part. It’s a confidence killer for sure that on one had you are being forced to do something unnatural (memorize weird looking formulas) and on the other give a somewhat easy, yet demeaning, way out by saying “it’s ok, you are just not good at math”. Honestly, it is more direct at the instructors instead of the mathematics itself. I am not good with math because of the instructors' pedagogy. Honestly, I do like math and enjoy doing it (Khan's Academy helps a lot!). It is their approach with mathematics is the issue. Their pedagogy are not standardized enough to have consistency with each level of mathematics. There are instructors who dismissed their student's previous instructor because their former instructor gave them the shortcut or a shorter method while the new instructor are doing the same thing. Now you have a student who have a jumbled information of mathematics and that is difficult for the student to be able to relearn a new information while they can't erase/forget the previous method. Also I am curious why it is difficult for instructor to explain HOW and WHY that solution is the correct answer? It is like they don't want to teach the concept of mathematics which is vital for critical thinking, IMO. When I asked the instructor of this question (this is in college), their answers is "It is the way I was taught in school" and I felt that is dismissive and hand-waving away the question. Instructors are not entirely at fault because they also received the similar education in the past as we do. The mathematics pedagogy and the curriculum need a massive restructuring and cohesive way to teach the students to ensure that the students can use the previous knowledge to the next level of mathematics for consistency without changing or influencing the students to forget everything.
- pjlegato 5y ago
  It is more or less exactly this. Texas Instruments invests in extensive marketing aimed at teachers, school districts, and university math departments. They get a lot of free teacher training and materials centered around TI calculators, to induce them to require all new students to buy a $100+ Texas Instruments graphing calculator every year. - https://gen.medium.com/big-calculator-how-texas-instruments-monopolized-math-class-67ee165045dc https://gen.medium.com/big-calculator-how-texas-instruments-... - https://www.google.com/search?q=texas+instruments+marketing+to+schools https://www.google.com/search?q=texas+instruments+marketing+...
- WhyNotHugo 5y ago
  I recall finishing the first year of engineering (and secondary school before that) without having my own calculator. Meanwhile, most kids around me could not do something as simple as 49/7 without a calculator. It's a loop. If you have a calculator, you use it more, so you never get better at maths, so you use a calculator more.
zeku 5y ago
Thankfully for me, my college Calculus professor(in USA) banned calculators for Calc 1 and 2(the two required Calc classes for a computer science degree at my public university). He was heavily avoided by many and "special" for doing so. I found it easier to forego the calculator as it allowed us to focus on methods and how/why over just moving large numbers around.
- sologoub 5y ago
  That sounds pretty awesome actually! It also probably makes it a bit harder to prepare the materials, since you need to make sure it’s reasonably computable by hand.
  - zeku 5y ago
    Perhaps, but the guy had been teaching these courses for at least 10 years so he really had it all down. I mean he taught almost completely from his brain. Total math teacher too, his university email is so full if you email him it just bounces back.

starkd 5y ago

I never understood why graphing calculators were required for basic calculus or math courses. Always wondered if it was part of a marketing deal with the company that manufactured them. The course is said to require a particular make and model of graphing calculator.

Isthatablackgsd 5y ago
I believe it is more of a standardization of knowledge when picking the tool for mathematics. TI-83 calculator is common and easily to have all the students to use the same calculator and provides various approach of how to solve it. If one student is a outlier (like using HP calculator), then it could be an issue since the instructor only have the knowledge of using TI-83 (or its variants), the instructor couldn't help that student since HP and other graphic calculators have different inputs, layouts, etc. And not everyone is good at solving math alone without the aid of the calculator. Some people simply can't solve mathematics at all, maybe up to multiplication/division level is the best they can do. I am not good with mathematics myself and struggles with some advanced algebra. It is not the matter of trying to solve, it is matter of memorization of mathematics formula and equations that US Education drilled down so hard which is ironic when they said that calculators are forbidden to use during the exam while they are encouraging to use the calculators in class and homework... Their pedagogy is fucked and hypocritical.
- sologoub 5y ago
  Sorry you had such an experience! There really is a lot to unpack here. As the article describes, memorization of “formulas” doesn’t actually work for my students and leaves those that it “worked” disadvantaged in future learning. My personal guess is the “not being good at math” originates from this, at least in part. It’s a confidence killer for sure that on one had you are being forced to do something unnatural (memorize weird looking formulas) and on the other give a somewhat easy, yet demeaning, way out by saying “it’s ok, you are just not good at math”. The calculator to study and no calculator for the test is even more ridiculous - students are put in a high pressure situation without the very tool/crutch they came to rely upon. If anything, the inverse might make more sense - homework you have a lot more time and less pressure, so try working it out on paper. Test is timed, so it’s ok to use a calculator aid, so long as you show your work.
  - Isthatablackgsd 5y ago
    > My personal guess is the “not being good at math” originates from this, at least in part. It’s a confidence killer for sure that on one had you are being forced to do something unnatural (memorize weird looking formulas) and on the other give a somewhat easy, yet demeaning, way out by saying “it’s ok, you are just not good at math”. Honestly, it is more direct at the instructors instead of the mathematics itself. I am not good with math because of the instructors' pedagogy. Honestly, I do like math and enjoy doing it (Khan's Academy helps a lot!). It is their approach with mathematics is the issue. Their pedagogy are not standardized enough to have consistency with each level of mathematics. There are instructors who dismissed their student's previous instructor because their former instructor gave them the shortcut or a shorter method while the new instructor are doing the same thing. Now you have a student who have a jumbled information of mathematics and that is difficult for the student to be able to relearn a new information while they can't erase/forget the previous method. Also I am curious why it is difficult for instructor to explain HOW and WHY that solution is the correct answer? It is like they don't want to teach the concept of mathematics which is vital for critical thinking, IMO. When I asked the instructor of this question (this is in college), their answers is "It is the way I was taught in school" and I felt that is dismissive and hand-waving away the question. Instructors are not entirely at fault because they also received the similar education in the past as we do. The mathematics pedagogy and the curriculum need a massive restructuring and cohesive way to teach the students to ensure that the students can use the previous knowledge to the next level of mathematics for consistency without changing or influencing the students to forget everything.
pjlegato 5y ago
It is more or less exactly this. Texas Instruments invests in extensive marketing aimed at teachers, school districts, and university math departments. They get a lot of free teacher training and materials centered around TI calculators, to induce them to require all new students to buy a $100+ Texas Instruments graphing calculator every year. - https://gen.medium.com/big-calculator-how-texas-instruments-monopolized-math-class-67ee165045dc https://gen.medium.com/big-calculator-how-texas-instruments-... - https://www.google.com/search?q=texas+instruments+marketing+to+schools https://www.google.com/search?q=texas+instruments+marketing+...
WhyNotHugo 5y ago
I recall finishing the first year of engineering (and secondary school before that) without having my own calculator. Meanwhile, most kids around me could not do something as simple as 49/7 without a calculator. It's a loop. If you have a calculator, you use it more, so you never get better at maths, so you use a calculator more.

zeku 5y ago

Thankfully for me, my college Calculus professor(in USA) banned calculators for Calc 1 and 2(the two required Calc classes for a computer science degree at my public university). He was heavily avoided by many and "special" for doing so. I found it easier to forego the calculator as it allowed us to focus on methods and how/why over just moving large numbers around.

sologoub 5y ago
That sounds pretty awesome actually! It also probably makes it a bit harder to prepare the materials, since you need to make sure it’s reasonably computable by hand.
- zeku 5y ago
  Perhaps, but the guy had been teaching these courses for at least 10 years so he really had it all down. I mean he taught almost completely from his brain. Total math teacher too, his university email is so full if you email him it just bounces back.