5 ms·

Scots is a dialect of English. So finding idiomatic Scots expressions for technical terms, instead of importing them verbatim, really is about "having fun" rath

Scots is a dialect of English. So finding idiomatic Scots expressions for technical terms, instead of importing them verbatim, really is about "having fun" rather than achieving any extra clarity in communication.

guerrilla 5y ago
> Scots is a dialect of English Beware fighting words > Modern Scots is a sister language of Modern English, as the two diverged independently from the same source: Early Middle English (1150–1300) > As there are no universally accepted criteria for distinguishing a language from a dialect, scholars and other interested parties often disagree about the linguistic, historical and social status of Scots, particularly its relationship to English. Although a number of paradigms for distinguishing between languages and dialects exist, they often render contradictory results. Broad Scots is at one end of a bipolar linguistic continuum, with Scottish Standard English at the other. Scots is sometimes regarded as a variety of English, though it has its own distinct dialects; other scholars treat Scots as a distinct Germanic language, in the way that Norwegian is closely linked to but distinct from Danish.
daleharvey 5y ago
Describing Scots as a dialect of English is really about a political affiliation than any interest in linguistics, Plenty of people regard Scots as a distinct language. (Scottish Firefox developer)
- tomrod 5y ago
  Neat!
- dmurray 5y ago
  I don't have any affiliation with England, or the US, and would also consider "English is a dialect of Scots". (More than one person in Galicia described the Portuguese language to me in the analogous way...). Still, I think it's silly to go all kayfabe here and treat the languages as completely distinct. I have similar thoughts on Slovenian and Slovakian and Flemish.
  - Fomorian 5y ago
    People that have a vested interest in the suppression of the indigenous Goidelic language of Scotland - on both sides of the England-Scotland border - will always insist upon the full-fledged distinctive language status of Scottish English.
    - dmurray 5y ago
      On both sides of the Irish Sea, too. Hard-line unionists in the north of Ireland have been pushing "Ulster Scots" in the last ten years or so. Not out of any real cultural association with the language or with Scotland - they overwhelmingly identify as "British" - but as a tool to diminish Irish-language initiatives. Every time there's a measure proposed to support Irish, they can propose an equal amount of funds for Ulster Scots. It actually helps them to make the language seem as ridiculous as possible, since the real goal isn't to promote their language but to mock another.
    - daleharvey 5y ago
      Unless I misunderstood your point, that is a strange take that isn't close to being true. There is a large overlap of Scottish language enthusiasts who are advocates of both Scots as a distinct language and Gaelic, the demographic of the recent surge of popularity of Gaelic on duolingo are clear. The overlap between political commentators who both insist that Scots is "just a dialect" and that Gaelic is a dying language that we should discourage is also very apparent. The subtext is pro indy people are generally pro Scots and Gaelic, and unionists are against both of course.
    - donbrae 5y ago
      Scottish English != Scots. The former is just English with a Scottish accent; the latter is a closely related (to English) but distinct language with its own vocabulary and grammar, not dissimilar to the relationship between Norwegian and Danish, or Czech and Slovak. Scots being a language has nothing to do with suppressing Gaelic. Generally people who hate Gaelic hate Scots equally.
      - Fomorian 5y ago
jwatt 5y ago
Two of my favorite videos on "Scots": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH8pxfqgSBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH8pxfqgSBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6RGgFoiNEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6RGgFoiNEo
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
lvxferre 5y ago
>Scots is a dialect of English It's up to the linguistic community to decide that, if their variety should be considered a "dialect" of something else or a "language" on its own. Linguists already gave up that question, it's more useful to talk about varieties anyway. And it's the same deal with Galician versus Portuguese, with a difference - "Scots is a dialect of English" threatens Scots, but "Portuguese is a dialect of Galician" doesn't threaten Portuguese (it threatens Galician instead).
- gsnedders 5y ago
  Or whether Danish and Norwegian and Swedish are the same language, but different dialects. Depending on how you define "dialect" or "language", they may or may not be. To quote the obligatory quip: "A language is a dialect with an army and navy".
  - dfawcus 5y ago
    "Or whether Danish and Norwegian and Swedish are the same language, but different dialects." I recently watched the Swedish production "Blue Eyes" (with English subtitles), and was amused at the amount of speech which struck me as being 'English with an odd regional dialect'. Usually these were simple 'core language' statements and / or imperatives. I guess that is more the lasting Viking and Dane Law impact upon the English, than English feeding in modern Swedish.
    - lvxferre 5y ago
      >I guess that is more the lasting Viking and Dane Law impact upon the English, than English feeding in modern Swedish. It might be the result of common Germanic grounds, not necessarily lateral influence. I got the same when learning German - sentences like "das Haus ist rot" or "ich trinke Wein" are surprisingly easy to catch up from English. And after some time you start noticing patterns, that help you further.
      - WorldMaker 5y ago
dfawcus 5y ago
"Scots is a dialect of English." Ahh whisht man. :-) That said, I find I often have to mentally pronounce the various written forms in order to be able to understand them.
dspillett 5y ago
> Scots is a dialect of English. You are probably thinking of Scottish English or Scots English, which is essentially English of some words and phrases from Scots and a very strong accent. Scots proper is as much a language of its own as English is. Scots and what we now think of as English arguably have a similar age and a lot of shared heritage, though obviously given how much separation, invading and other reasons for variation & remixing of languages has gone on over time, it is tricky to tie down completely what came from where when.

guerrilla 5y ago

> Scots is a dialect of English Beware fighting words > Modern Scots is a sister language of Modern English, as the two diverged independently from the same source: Early Middle English (1150–1300) > As there are no universally accepted criteria for distinguishing a language from a dialect, scholars and other interested parties often disagree about the linguistic, historical and social status of Scots, particularly its relationship to English. Although a number of paradigms for distinguishing between languages and dialects exist, they often render contradictory results. Broad Scots is at one end of a bipolar linguistic continuum, with Scottish Standard English at the other. Scots is sometimes regarded as a variety of English, though it has its own distinct dialects; other scholars treat Scots as a distinct Germanic language, in the way that Norwegian is closely linked to but distinct from Danish.

daleharvey 5y ago

Describing Scots as a dialect of English is really about a political affiliation than any interest in linguistics, Plenty of people regard Scots as a distinct language. (Scottish Firefox developer)

tomrod 5y ago
Neat!
dmurray 5y ago
I don't have any affiliation with England, or the US, and would also consider "English is a dialect of Scots". (More than one person in Galicia described the Portuguese language to me in the analogous way...). Still, I think it's silly to go all kayfabe here and treat the languages as completely distinct. I have similar thoughts on Slovenian and Slovakian and Flemish.
- Fomorian 5y ago
  People that have a vested interest in the suppression of the indigenous Goidelic language of Scotland - on both sides of the England-Scotland border - will always insist upon the full-fledged distinctive language status of Scottish English.
  - dmurray 5y ago
    On both sides of the Irish Sea, too. Hard-line unionists in the north of Ireland have been pushing "Ulster Scots" in the last ten years or so. Not out of any real cultural association with the language or with Scotland - they overwhelmingly identify as "British" - but as a tool to diminish Irish-language initiatives. Every time there's a measure proposed to support Irish, they can propose an equal amount of funds for Ulster Scots. It actually helps them to make the language seem as ridiculous as possible, since the real goal isn't to promote their language but to mock another.
  - daleharvey 5y ago
    Unless I misunderstood your point, that is a strange take that isn't close to being true. There is a large overlap of Scottish language enthusiasts who are advocates of both Scots as a distinct language and Gaelic, the demographic of the recent surge of popularity of Gaelic on duolingo are clear. The overlap between political commentators who both insist that Scots is "just a dialect" and that Gaelic is a dying language that we should discourage is also very apparent. The subtext is pro indy people are generally pro Scots and Gaelic, and unionists are against both of course.
  - donbrae 5y ago
    Scottish English != Scots. The former is just English with a Scottish accent; the latter is a closely related (to English) but distinct language with its own vocabulary and grammar, not dissimilar to the relationship between Norwegian and Danish, or Czech and Slovak. Scots being a language has nothing to do with suppressing Gaelic. Generally people who hate Gaelic hate Scots equally.
    - Fomorian 5y ago

jwatt 5y ago

Two of my favorite videos on "Scots": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH8pxfqgSBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH8pxfqgSBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6RGgFoiNEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6RGgFoiNEo

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

lvxferre 5y ago

>Scots is a dialect of English It's up to the linguistic community to decide that, if their variety should be considered a "dialect" of something else or a "language" on its own. Linguists already gave up that question, it's more useful to talk about varieties anyway. And it's the same deal with Galician versus Portuguese, with a difference - "Scots is a dialect of English" threatens Scots, but "Portuguese is a dialect of Galician" doesn't threaten Portuguese (it threatens Galician instead).

gsnedders 5y ago
Or whether Danish and Norwegian and Swedish are the same language, but different dialects. Depending on how you define "dialect" or "language", they may or may not be. To quote the obligatory quip: "A language is a dialect with an army and navy".
- dfawcus 5y ago
  "Or whether Danish and Norwegian and Swedish are the same language, but different dialects." I recently watched the Swedish production "Blue Eyes" (with English subtitles), and was amused at the amount of speech which struck me as being 'English with an odd regional dialect'. Usually these were simple 'core language' statements and / or imperatives. I guess that is more the lasting Viking and Dane Law impact upon the English, than English feeding in modern Swedish.
  - lvxferre 5y ago
    >I guess that is more the lasting Viking and Dane Law impact upon the English, than English feeding in modern Swedish. It might be the result of common Germanic grounds, not necessarily lateral influence. I got the same when learning German - sentences like "das Haus ist rot" or "ich trinke Wein" are surprisingly easy to catch up from English. And after some time you start noticing patterns, that help you further.
    - WorldMaker 5y ago

dfawcus 5y ago

"Scots is a dialect of English." Ahh whisht man. :-) That said, I find I often have to mentally pronounce the various written forms in order to be able to understand them.

dspillett 5y ago

> Scots is a dialect of English. You are probably thinking of Scottish English or Scots English, which is essentially English of some words and phrases from Scots and a very strong accent. Scots proper is as much a language of its own as English is. Scots and what we now think of as English arguably have a similar age and a lot of shared heritage, though obviously given how much separation, invading and other reasons for variation & remixing of languages has gone on over time, it is tricky to tie down completely what came from where when.