4 ms·

Oh awesome, fake breasts. Way to attract the other 50%. And there are complaints that g+ is male-dominated? This disappoints me. My internal dialogue: "Great,

by marquis 15y ago

Oh awesome, fake breasts. Way to attract the other 50%. And there are complaints that g+ is male-dominated? This disappoints me. My internal dialogue: "Great, now I'm either going to keep my opinion to myself and move along, or speak out and be perceived as a hardlining feminist". Goddamn, do I hate unthinking misogyny sometimes, I'm completely sick of it and it's totally acceptable in a male-dominated forum where so many other forms of isms have been classified as inadmissable. Reading the comments was even more disturbing, as the scrolling arrays of men commenting on the +00+ interspersed with only a few disapprovals from the women strong enough to speak out about this in the public forum.

Hisoka 15y ago
I also thought that pic was in bad taste... Seriously, why do we need that? People seem to be so conflicted. First, we say we should respect woman, and treat them equally, then we show pictures like this casually as if it's OK. I mean what the heck? Which is it? Are we just animals? We just pursue the orgasm? Come'n man!
thomasgerbe 15y ago
I'm not condoning the comments, but I don't see the big deal about the pic. It's not like they told her to open up her shirt and expose her bra.
- marquis 15y ago
  It's simple: the men are engineers and the woman is a pair of tits. That's all. Nothing more. It's blatant objectifying and absurd that in 2011 this is even up for discussion. Oh, and if she's holding, say, a PhD from Harvard? Then she's a woman with a pair of tits and OMG she's also intelligent. Secondly - she's intelligent.
  - dpark 15y ago
    > It's simple: the men are engineers and the woman is a pair of tits. That's all. Nothing more. This is your bias. It's a picture from Halloween or a costume party. The woman is dressed as a nurse. The guys are dressed as geeks. Yes, she's supposed to be sexy (she chose to dress as a "sexy" nurse). I'm not sure how that's objectifying. She's an object because guys find her image attractive? What does that make the guys in the image? Not even objects?
    - marquis 15y ago
      This is a prime example of how the Male Gaze* systematically expresses a power imbalance. By using this image as an illustration of Sexy, Sexy becomes the objectified. In this context there has been debate after debate about why women are not comfortable entering male spaces (particularly of late coding environments and google+). While there remains a particular imbalance it is harmful to the cause of trying to rectify this by further objectifying the subject of the imbalance. Now, in Facebook where I have equal male/female participants in my stream I can see far worse than this, but Facebook has managed to grow a balanced community, and the comments on an image like this, if posted by someone I know, would be far more relevant to the person's personality and placed in a context. In this large, open space that is currently Google+, an image like this serves only to remind the minority that they are the minority. I have since uncircled Tom, as the comments posted remind me that my time is wasted in participating in such a dialogue. * http://google.com/?q=male+gaze http://google.com/?q=male+gaze
      - dpark 15y ago
        The "male gaze"? Every time I look at a woman I'm objectifying and expressing power imbalance? You've got to be kidding. If Tom's job were to try to correct the male/female imbalance of Google+, I would agree that the image is inappropriate. But that's not his job. It's neither his job nor his responsibility to curate his posts to try to never offend the easily-offended. As for why women are reluctant to join Google+, I think it's got very little to do with the fact that it's "male-dominated" and a lot to do with the fact that most of them simply don't care about it. Their friends aren't there. The people who are there are 99% geeks. As it is now, there's simply little value to Google+ fr them.
      - thomasgerbe 15y ago
        Why do women perform against their own interests?
        marquis 15y ago
        Would I read this to mean specifically in this case, why would this woman pose showing off surgically-enhanced breasts, knowing that she is being objectified? If that's what you mean it's not something I can answer (and wouldn't presume) just because I'm also a woman. We all do things against our self-interest for complicated reasons but at the end of the day don't we all just want to find some love and acceptance?
  - thomasgerbe 15y ago
    I didn't downvote you because your comment is a sentiment that I think a lot of women have. I just viewed this as two guys taking a picture with an attractive woman, no different than viewing pictures I see on Facebook of my female friends taking pictures with attractive male athletes (famous and non).
    - marquis 15y ago
      Thanks for your reasonable comment on the topic. I would have felt the same way - to be honest it was the stream of comments that disturbed me more, following the post with nothing to add to the conversation but 'oogle'. If Tom were interested in sparking debate on bringing 'sexy' to g+ then he failed, because he has isolated a significant group of the g+ population with this post.
dpark 15y ago
> Reading the comments was even more disturbing, as the scrolling arrays of men commenting on the +00+ interspersed with only a few disapprovals from the women strong enough to speak out about this in the public forum. There were quite a few women who commented and did not complain about the picture. > Corina Newby - Google has always been sexy :) > Lisa Bimmerz - Well, that's one way to spell "Google"! lol > Corinne Maloney - I wouldn't consider myself a techie, but I've loved google since I started using it! :) > Frederika Katuuk - this is sexy..lol Some did complain, however: > Diana McQueen - Wow. That a disgusting sexist image. If that's officially from Google, I'm terrible disappointed in them. There should be two women in lab coats standing next to a chiseled guy in a thong. Then maybe. Of course, the image is disgusting but "a chiseled guy in a thong" would be okay... I'm all in favor of making software engineering a friendly place for women, but this is not the way to do it. This is a post that someone made on their personal Google+ site. It was not a statement from Google. It was not a Google employee. It was not a conference speech. It was a guy who posted a sexy picture to accompany his thoughts on making Google "sexy". Would it be okay if he had also posted a picture of a guy in a thong? Trying to tell guys that they can never enjoy sexy images is not the way to fix the gender inequality in the software field. That just breeds resentment.
- marquis 15y ago
  This is symptomatic of societal denial that there are serious gender imbalances in the objectification of women. Not long before Tom posted this image there was this public post: https://plus.google.com/117378076401635777570/posts/AQ6Fp44B7VZ https://plus.google.com/117378076401635777570/posts/AQ6Fp44B... How can I, as a woman, read this story and then look back at Google+ and see this image?
  - dpark 15y ago
    How can you seriously compare a woman choosing to dress in a sexy outfit with women who are forced into prostitution? When Anthony Weiner sends pictures of himself in his underwear, does it cause gender imbalances? Does it cause male objectification?
cowboyhero 15y ago
100% agree and I'm glad you said something. I clicked the link, saw the photo, blinked in disbelief and closed the window without reading Tom's article. So awesome that the guys get to be the nerds while the woman is literally nothing more than an ornament, existing solely to fill out Google's logo. I mean, seriously? That's the kind of cheap "humor" that I expect out of strip club signage. (For the record, even though it shouldn't matter: I'm a guy)
- dpark 15y ago
  > So awesome that the guys get to be the nerds while the woman is literally nothing more than an ornament, existing solely to fill out Google's logo. Why is the woman nothing but an ornament to fill out the logo while the guys are not? The guys' are literally dressed to fill out the logo.

by marquis 15y ago

Hisoka 15y ago

I also thought that pic was in bad taste... Seriously, why do we need that? People seem to be so conflicted. First, we say we should respect woman, and treat them equally, then we show pictures like this casually as if it's OK. I mean what the heck? Which is it? Are we just animals? We just pursue the orgasm? Come'n man!

thomasgerbe 15y ago

I'm not condoning the comments, but I don't see the big deal about the pic. It's not like they told her to open up her shirt and expose her bra.

marquis 15y ago
It's simple: the men are engineers and the woman is a pair of tits. That's all. Nothing more. It's blatant objectifying and absurd that in 2011 this is even up for discussion. Oh, and if she's holding, say, a PhD from Harvard? Then she's a woman with a pair of tits and OMG she's also intelligent. Secondly - she's intelligent.
- dpark 15y ago
  > It's simple: the men are engineers and the woman is a pair of tits. That's all. Nothing more. This is your bias. It's a picture from Halloween or a costume party. The woman is dressed as a nurse. The guys are dressed as geeks. Yes, she's supposed to be sexy (she chose to dress as a "sexy" nurse). I'm not sure how that's objectifying. She's an object because guys find her image attractive? What does that make the guys in the image? Not even objects?
  - marquis 15y ago
    This is a prime example of how the Male Gaze* systematically expresses a power imbalance. By using this image as an illustration of Sexy, Sexy becomes the objectified. In this context there has been debate after debate about why women are not comfortable entering male spaces (particularly of late coding environments and google+). While there remains a particular imbalance it is harmful to the cause of trying to rectify this by further objectifying the subject of the imbalance. Now, in Facebook where I have equal male/female participants in my stream I can see far worse than this, but Facebook has managed to grow a balanced community, and the comments on an image like this, if posted by someone I know, would be far more relevant to the person's personality and placed in a context. In this large, open space that is currently Google+, an image like this serves only to remind the minority that they are the minority. I have since uncircled Tom, as the comments posted remind me that my time is wasted in participating in such a dialogue. * http://google.com/?q=male+gaze http://google.com/?q=male+gaze
    - dpark 15y ago
      The "male gaze"? Every time I look at a woman I'm objectifying and expressing power imbalance? You've got to be kidding. If Tom's job were to try to correct the male/female imbalance of Google+, I would agree that the image is inappropriate. But that's not his job. It's neither his job nor his responsibility to curate his posts to try to never offend the easily-offended. As for why women are reluctant to join Google+, I think it's got very little to do with the fact that it's "male-dominated" and a lot to do with the fact that most of them simply don't care about it. Their friends aren't there. The people who are there are 99% geeks. As it is now, there's simply little value to Google+ fr them.
    - thomasgerbe 15y ago
      Why do women perform against their own interests?
      - marquis 15y ago
        Would I read this to mean specifically in this case, why would this woman pose showing off surgically-enhanced breasts, knowing that she is being objectified? If that's what you mean it's not something I can answer (and wouldn't presume) just because I'm also a woman. We all do things against our self-interest for complicated reasons but at the end of the day don't we all just want to find some love and acceptance?
- thomasgerbe 15y ago
  I didn't downvote you because your comment is a sentiment that I think a lot of women have. I just viewed this as two guys taking a picture with an attractive woman, no different than viewing pictures I see on Facebook of my female friends taking pictures with attractive male athletes (famous and non).
  - marquis 15y ago
    Thanks for your reasonable comment on the topic. I would have felt the same way - to be honest it was the stream of comments that disturbed me more, following the post with nothing to add to the conversation but 'oogle'. If Tom were interested in sparking debate on bringing 'sexy' to g+ then he failed, because he has isolated a significant group of the g+ population with this post.

dpark 15y ago

> Reading the comments was even more disturbing, as the scrolling arrays of men commenting on the +00+ interspersed with only a few disapprovals from the women strong enough to speak out about this in the public forum. There were quite a few women who commented and did not complain about the picture. > Corina Newby - Google has always been sexy :) > Lisa Bimmerz - Well, that's one way to spell "Google"! lol > Corinne Maloney - I wouldn't consider myself a techie, but I've loved google since I started using it! :) > Frederika Katuuk - this is sexy..lol Some did complain, however: > Diana McQueen - Wow. That a disgusting sexist image. If that's officially from Google, I'm terrible disappointed in them. There should be two women in lab coats standing next to a chiseled guy in a thong. Then maybe. Of course, the image is disgusting but "a chiseled guy in a thong" would be okay... I'm all in favor of making software engineering a friendly place for women, but this is not the way to do it. This is a post that someone made on their personal Google+ site. It was not a statement from Google. It was not a Google employee. It was not a conference speech. It was a guy who posted a sexy picture to accompany his thoughts on making Google "sexy". Would it be okay if he had also posted a picture of a guy in a thong? Trying to tell guys that they can never enjoy sexy images is not the way to fix the gender inequality in the software field. That just breeds resentment.

marquis 15y ago
This is symptomatic of societal denial that there are serious gender imbalances in the objectification of women. Not long before Tom posted this image there was this public post: https://plus.google.com/117378076401635777570/posts/AQ6Fp44B7VZ https://plus.google.com/117378076401635777570/posts/AQ6Fp44B... How can I, as a woman, read this story and then look back at Google+ and see this image?
- dpark 15y ago
  How can you seriously compare a woman choosing to dress in a sexy outfit with women who are forced into prostitution? When Anthony Weiner sends pictures of himself in his underwear, does it cause gender imbalances? Does it cause male objectification?

cowboyhero 15y ago

100% agree and I'm glad you said something. I clicked the link, saw the photo, blinked in disbelief and closed the window without reading Tom's article. So awesome that the guys get to be the nerds while the woman is literally nothing more than an ornament, existing solely to fill out Google's logo. I mean, seriously? That's the kind of cheap "humor" that I expect out of strip club signage. (For the record, even though it shouldn't matter: I'm a guy)

dpark 15y ago
> So awesome that the guys get to be the nerds while the woman is literally nothing more than an ornament, existing solely to fill out Google's logo. Why is the woman nothing but an ornament to fill out the logo while the guys are not? The guys' are literally dressed to fill out the logo.