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Maybe your province isn't too bad yet, but these things tend to spread: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-school-board-cuts-honours-pro

Maybe your province isn't too bad yet, but these things tend to spread: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-school-board-cuts-honours-program-1.6068578 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-sc... With no advanced/honours tract, you have two choices. Subjects too difficult for a large portion of the class, or everyone gets education tailored to the least capable students. Clearly, they aren't removing advanced classes, then suddenly failing 1/2 the class...

__turbobrew__ 5y ago
As someone thinking of raising kids in Vancouver I was really disappointed by the honours stream being removed from VSB curriculum. If the school board truly wanted equality for their students they should be looking at external factors of why kids are not performing: do they have a place at home to complete homework? Do their parents value education? Do they believe in themselves? I do believe that there is a natural difference in intelligence, but not enough to make the difference of a student getting into the honours stream or not. A lot of the kids say “I don’t get math” or “I’m just dumb” or they don’t have a stable household or family role models of success — all of which hold them back. Naturally these external problems are much harder for school boards to tackle so they would rather chop the legs off of honours students than address the students who come from a disadvantaged background.
- wheelinsupial 5y ago
  You can have your kids take summer courses to finish the regular curriculum early. In some cases they can then be allowed to start taking courses at UBC or SFU. It was mentioned in my Surrey school over a decade ago that there were kids in Vancouver and Burnaby doing that. I think it's a nominal fee to register in the courses while in high school. Something to explore if you're still looking at Vancouver.
II2II 5y ago
The article also mentions that AP (and, presumably, IB) are being maintained. These programs provide a recognized curriculum and the courses are typically taken by students who want advanced classes. I also took a quick glance at the BC mathematics curriculum, which is typically offered in different tiers, and it is offered in different tiers. Science appears to take the usual tact of a general course, with specialist courses for students who want to study biology, chemistry, or physics in more depth. In other words, regardless of whatever nonsense is being spewed by the board, differentiation between interest and ability is still available. It is also worth noting that there would be significant public push back if there was a true degradation in the curriculum. Ontario tried replacing calculus with pre-calculus about a decade ago, which the government had to reverse due to public pressure.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  It is also worth noting that there would be significant public push back if there was a true degradation in the curriculum. Not so sure on that one. I agree some would push back, certainly. I feel it is fewer every year, with parents not caring for anything but what a piece of paper says. But, perhaps I am a cynic, or am reading too many such stories.
- wheelinsupial 5y ago
  > AP (and, presumably, IB) are being maintained These are not accessible to all students. It depends on which catchment zone you live in, and even the schools that offer AP don't offer the same AP courses. Last I checked one offered 2 AP courses and another offered 11, so there is huge variance between the schools offering AP. These are public schools, not private schools. There are private schools that also offer AP and IB. The IB private schools cost as much in tuition for one year of high school (IB senior years is a two year program) as a Canadian university does for the 4 year degree. Some of these private schools will teach second or third year university courses to advanced high school students. The BC math courses are offered at different levels, but even the top level math is not for students who want to move ahead or be challenged. The top level math is the bare minimum to get into a Canadian university. Some schools offer calculus 12 and many other schools don't offer it at all. I guess that's "honors" math. The "honors" math program that has been eliminated is a program that condensed the regular curriculum. I am so confused as to how that is inequitable, but AP (which has exam costs) and IB are allowed to stay. In some Surrey schools there are programs to allow students to spend their last year doing a trades foundation program. This isn't evenly distributed either, but is a great way to allow students to start their careers. My brothers are both in the trades, but their friends at other schools spent grade 12 in a foundation program and saved 6k in tuition. There is even a possibility to take summer courses and spend some of your last year taking college courses or university courses in the right districts. This is for Vancouver and Burnaby students that are close to UBC and SFU, but this isn't advertised or evenly available. My point and rant about these is that it'll be a matter of time before all of these opportunities are also taken away. If they stay, I'll be pleasantly surprised and gladly admit I'm wrong.
  - 5y ago

__turbobrew__ 5y ago

As someone thinking of raising kids in Vancouver I was really disappointed by the honours stream being removed from VSB curriculum. If the school board truly wanted equality for their students they should be looking at external factors of why kids are not performing: do they have a place at home to complete homework? Do their parents value education? Do they believe in themselves? I do believe that there is a natural difference in intelligence, but not enough to make the difference of a student getting into the honours stream or not. A lot of the kids say “I don’t get math” or “I’m just dumb” or they don’t have a stable household or family role models of success — all of which hold them back. Naturally these external problems are much harder for school boards to tackle so they would rather chop the legs off of honours students than address the students who come from a disadvantaged background.

wheelinsupial 5y ago
You can have your kids take summer courses to finish the regular curriculum early. In some cases they can then be allowed to start taking courses at UBC or SFU. It was mentioned in my Surrey school over a decade ago that there were kids in Vancouver and Burnaby doing that. I think it's a nominal fee to register in the courses while in high school. Something to explore if you're still looking at Vancouver.

II2II 5y ago

The article also mentions that AP (and, presumably, IB) are being maintained. These programs provide a recognized curriculum and the courses are typically taken by students who want advanced classes. I also took a quick glance at the BC mathematics curriculum, which is typically offered in different tiers, and it is offered in different tiers. Science appears to take the usual tact of a general course, with specialist courses for students who want to study biology, chemistry, or physics in more depth. In other words, regardless of whatever nonsense is being spewed by the board, differentiation between interest and ability is still available. It is also worth noting that there would be significant public push back if there was a true degradation in the curriculum. Ontario tried replacing calculus with pre-calculus about a decade ago, which the government had to reverse due to public pressure.

bbarnett 5y ago
It is also worth noting that there would be significant public push back if there was a true degradation in the curriculum. Not so sure on that one. I agree some would push back, certainly. I feel it is fewer every year, with parents not caring for anything but what a piece of paper says. But, perhaps I am a cynic, or am reading too many such stories.
wheelinsupial 5y ago
> AP (and, presumably, IB) are being maintained These are not accessible to all students. It depends on which catchment zone you live in, and even the schools that offer AP don't offer the same AP courses. Last I checked one offered 2 AP courses and another offered 11, so there is huge variance between the schools offering AP. These are public schools, not private schools. There are private schools that also offer AP and IB. The IB private schools cost as much in tuition for one year of high school (IB senior years is a two year program) as a Canadian university does for the 4 year degree. Some of these private schools will teach second or third year university courses to advanced high school students. The BC math courses are offered at different levels, but even the top level math is not for students who want to move ahead or be challenged. The top level math is the bare minimum to get into a Canadian university. Some schools offer calculus 12 and many other schools don't offer it at all. I guess that's "honors" math. The "honors" math program that has been eliminated is a program that condensed the regular curriculum. I am so confused as to how that is inequitable, but AP (which has exam costs) and IB are allowed to stay. In some Surrey schools there are programs to allow students to spend their last year doing a trades foundation program. This isn't evenly distributed either, but is a great way to allow students to start their careers. My brothers are both in the trades, but their friends at other schools spent grade 12 in a foundation program and saved 6k in tuition. There is even a possibility to take summer courses and spend some of your last year taking college courses or university courses in the right districts. This is for Vancouver and Burnaby students that are close to UBC and SFU, but this isn't advertised or evenly available. My point and rant about these is that it'll be a matter of time before all of these opportunities are also taken away. If they stay, I'll be pleasantly surprised and gladly admit I'm wrong.
- 5y ago