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> Companies were never paying based on value provided. They pay market rate Trying to negotiate salary based on value provided is one of the biggest misconcept

> Companies were never paying based on value provided. They pay market rate Trying to negotiate salary based on value provided is one of the biggest misconceptions I see online and with in-person mentoring groups. Compensation is not about value provided. It’s only about market rate and convincing the person to stay at the company. I encounter a lot of people, especially juniors, who are disgruntled because they think their employers are getting more value out of their work than is being passed along in their paychecks. I usually ask them if their employer sends them a bill every time they fail to deliver a project or make a mistake that costs the company money. That usually makes the disconnect between value provided and compensation click. I say this as someone who worked remote and managed remote teams before COVID: The reality is they WFH is a perk and WFH employees require some additional management overhead due to reduced communication efficiency and higher collaboration overhead. As much as I love remote work and my remote teams, it would be dishonest to say that we wouldn’t perform better or faster if we were in-person in the same building. It may not be a popular opinion or what people want to hear, but in my direct experience with mixed WFH/remote teams it’s always true. In-person is just too efficient to replace with Zoom and Slack and e-mail. The second reality is that once you open the doors to full-time WFH, you’ve opened the doors to full-time remote, which means you’ve opened the doors to a much larger labor market. It becomes easy to replace your $200K Silicon Valley hires with someone a couple states away who is thrilled to do the same job for $180K or even $150K. Then you start expanding your search and find people who live in other countries who deliver the same results for $100K or even $80K. It’s not surprising that companies don’t want to pay the highest salaries in the country for people who aren’t actually in those areas for work. Losing only 10% of their high salaries honestly seems like a bargain.

djoldman 5y ago
> Compensation is not about value provided. It’s only about market rate and convincing the person to stay at the company. I don't think reasonable people would disagree with this statement about compensation. That being said, I don't believe it says much. "Only about market rate" allows for tautological reasoning in that the market rate is just whatever you end up getting paid. A stricter definition of market rate as "you get paid what people like you get paid" doesn't seem to say much either: when you get a promotion, did you suddenly start producing more for your employer? Or did they suddenly realize you produced more for them? As most pricing goes, so does employee pay: you're paid the salary to which you agree. You can increase your salary by 1. threatening to quit your current employer unless pay rises or by 2. convincing some other employer to pay you more.
dragonsngoblins 5y ago
> "it would be dishonest to say that we wouldn’t perform better or faster if we were in-person in the same building. It may not be a popular opinion or what people want to hear, but in my direct experience with mixed WFH/remote teams it’s always true. In-person is just too efficient to replace with Zoom and Slack and e-mail." So I agree with the above in that being in person definitely makes collaboration easier. But on the other hand I feel like I personally am more productive when working from home because I have more energy. I always found the commute in the morning draining and by the time I'd gotten dressed and showered, into a crowded train, to my desk, out of my coat, put my bag down, set up my workstation if I had to take my laptop home to have an out of hours work meeting where I might need to demo something, etc. I'm already feeling a little worn out. Working from home I definitely have found myself stuck waiting to hear back from people and similar things, but... at the office if at the end of the day I feel close to solving a problem I have to weigh up whether or not to stay late and keep working or just spend more time the next day getting myself back to that headspace. I fairly often will just go home because I know that with commuting and everything how much I want to just be home will be higher by the time I get there, plus I'll have more things I need to do at home that I might have been able to do when I get home because I'm spending less time there everyday. Not to mention the amount of chores I can get done during the workday - I've hung laundry while making tea, or done stuff at lunch, etc. At the office I'd still be taking a lunch break or making that tea, but I'd not be getting other stuff done at the same time. I know that those extra house chores aren't productivity in the workplace, but having them done makes me feel more energetic and clearheaded at work
intricatedetail 5y ago
Nothing is free. If workers deliver something quicker when working in the office, changes are they get burnt out quickly and any gain in productivity would be lost. Plus you may start building resentment in them and I have seen whole teams quitting which cost company fortune.

djoldman 5y ago

> Compensation is not about value provided. It’s only about market rate and convincing the person to stay at the company. I don't think reasonable people would disagree with this statement about compensation. That being said, I don't believe it says much. "Only about market rate" allows for tautological reasoning in that the market rate is just whatever you end up getting paid. A stricter definition of market rate as "you get paid what people like you get paid" doesn't seem to say much either: when you get a promotion, did you suddenly start producing more for your employer? Or did they suddenly realize you produced more for them? As most pricing goes, so does employee pay: you're paid the salary to which you agree. You can increase your salary by 1. threatening to quit your current employer unless pay rises or by 2. convincing some other employer to pay you more.

dragonsngoblins 5y ago

> "it would be dishonest to say that we wouldn’t perform better or faster if we were in-person in the same building. It may not be a popular opinion or what people want to hear, but in my direct experience with mixed WFH/remote teams it’s always true. In-person is just too efficient to replace with Zoom and Slack and e-mail." So I agree with the above in that being in person definitely makes collaboration easier. But on the other hand I feel like I personally am more productive when working from home because I have more energy. I always found the commute in the morning draining and by the time I'd gotten dressed and showered, into a crowded train, to my desk, out of my coat, put my bag down, set up my workstation if I had to take my laptop home to have an out of hours work meeting where I might need to demo something, etc. I'm already feeling a little worn out. Working from home I definitely have found myself stuck waiting to hear back from people and similar things, but... at the office if at the end of the day I feel close to solving a problem I have to weigh up whether or not to stay late and keep working or just spend more time the next day getting myself back to that headspace. I fairly often will just go home because I know that with commuting and everything how much I want to just be home will be higher by the time I get there, plus I'll have more things I need to do at home that I might have been able to do when I get home because I'm spending less time there everyday. Not to mention the amount of chores I can get done during the workday - I've hung laundry while making tea, or done stuff at lunch, etc. At the office I'd still be taking a lunch break or making that tea, but I'd not be getting other stuff done at the same time. I know that those extra house chores aren't productivity in the workplace, but having them done makes me feel more energetic and clearheaded at work

intricatedetail 5y ago

Nothing is free. If workers deliver something quicker when working in the office, changes are they get burnt out quickly and any gain in productivity would be lost. Plus you may start building resentment in them and I have seen whole teams quitting which cost company fortune.