4 ms·

GrapheneOS sucks for normies, first of all because it lacks GApps, which is essential for many popular apps nowadays. One example to rule them all? Most bankin

GrapheneOS sucks for normies, first of all because it lacks GApps, which is essential for many popular apps nowadays. One example to rule them all? Most banking apps refuse to start if you don't have GApps (i.e. SafetyNet). And no, microG does not count as solution. Why banking apps as example? Because in the EU they are required after the PSD2 directive mandated "strong" auth requirements.

uhtred 5y ago
I'm amazed that banking apps are the make or break example for so many people when choosing a non-apple/non-google mobile OS. How much banking is everyone doing on-the-go?! Just use the website! Use the mobile website if you must!
- juniperplant 5y ago
  Maybe you did not read my last paragraph?
  - uhtred 5y ago
    so you can't login to a bank website in the EU without having their app on your phone? WTF. Really? When did that happen? I know UK isn't in the EU anymore, but NatWest (UK bank) doesn't need me to have an app -- I can get an sms code.
    - juniperplant 5y ago
      No, but (at least in my country) most banks have used the PSD2 directive as a way to phase out HW tokens and force their proprietary apps to customers. But PSD2 does not really say this is required to comply. The only alternative they offer is SMS-based 2FA which, unsurprisingly, often has an additional cost.
- depaulagu 5y ago
  All the banks I use (in brazil), either only have mobile app to access the bank, or they require the bank's app to use the site (the app generates a 2FA token, you can't use a third-party 2fa manager like authy).
- ant6n 5y ago
  In the EU u need an app on the phone in order to do banking on the website. The app authenticates transactions.
  - ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
    That's not accurate. I validate all my transactions through SMS like I always have despite the directive.
    - juniperplant 5y ago
      I agree, but I would say the situation is not so good elsewhere. See my comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28135648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28135648
- browningstreet 5y ago
  Most banks only allow check deposit by mobile (as opposed to desktop), but yes, desktop can do a lot. I'm incorporated, and some of my clients (usually new ones) will pay with a check, so without mobile I'll have to visit a branch/atm to deposit those. And my banks still use SMS MFA, so I could login online using a dumber phone.
beshrkayali 5y ago
> first of all because it lacks GApps Anything that completely blocks Play services is a win in my book. Sweden is pretty much a willingly fully cashless society and you can still function normally without banking mobile apps, or with a stay-at-home-usually-off phone that you can use for bank app when needed, though at that point you can just use the website.
- juniperplant 5y ago
  > Anything that completely blocks Play services is a win in my book. In mine too, however... Don't banks in Sweden require a mobile app for 2FA?
  - beshrkayali 5y ago
    You can usually ask for a hardware device (called something like a security token device) to login with.
- lawn 5y ago
  In Sweden you need BankId though, and it's really awkward to use their hardware thing.
  - beshrkayali 5y ago
    It's actually faster than using BankId. And BankId is not a requirement, there's usually always an alternative.
tyingq 5y ago
Banking apps don't like rooted phones either, even if they do have GApps. My bank's app, though, isn't much different from their mobile web experience, so I just use that.
- NorwegianDude 5y ago
  You might be able to hide root using magisk(?). Did at least work the last time I tried, and the safety net checks passed without issues on lineage os.
  - npteljes 5y ago
    Yes but then you're playing a cat-and-mouse game. Defaults are a big deal, if you think larger than the individual level.
yosamino 5y ago
> Because in the EU [apps] are required after the PSD2 directive mandated "strong" auth requirements. No. I recently set up an elderly neighbours online banking access. She has a laptop for some clerical work and email, but uses a dumbphone only. All the bigger banks I have been using offer a hardware device to generate authentication codes. These usually come with some sort of camera (there are multiple systems) that reads a code of the screen and they require a your bank card. I am sure not all the banks offer this, but it's so much better than some stupid app.
- juniperplant 5y ago
  > All the bigger banks I have been using offer a hardware device to generate authentication codes. I guess banks suck in my country.
JeremyNT 5y ago
For such things, you can have a dedicated device that runs the locked down proprietary stuff. Motorola sells some very cheap Android devices that would work for this purpose. The situation really is unfortunate, though.
mindslight 5y ago
Stop putting all your eggs in one basket! A cheap/used tablet is like $50-$100. Put your online banking apps and other surveillance-based-apps on it, and generally leave it at home. Mine has a red label on it that says "Full Take". You're then free to secure your mobile device with things that will best protect your location and communications, without worrying about lazy/invasive apps complaining. Also if you get mugged, an attacker can't make you sign into online banking and see that you have a bunch of money sitting in your accounts.
- novok 5y ago
  That is an interesting insight about the banking apps. The hypothetical mugger could make you login on the web versions although, so you will also need to not have your 2 factor banking items on the personal phone too.
- npteljes 5y ago
  I think compartmentalization can work for now, I have a Windows partition with a similarly limited scope - only for gaming.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    Why only "for now" ? To me, compartmentalization is the future, as proprietary apps and platforms become ever more locked down. You'll have your "business device(s)" that engages with that world, that you're forced to compromise your Freedom for in various ways. And you'll also have your Free computers that run subversive freedom-preserving software that you can treat as trustable extensions of your own mind. Back when everyone had a single device, trying out Linux used to be such a trepidatious affair because you had to write down all the installation steps, make sure you had the install media in good order, and hope that you'd come out of it with a computer that still booted some OS. These days $20 will get you an independent machine capable of running Linux, and you can tinker to your heart's content without affecting your existing environment.
    - npteljes 5y ago

uhtred 5y ago

I'm amazed that banking apps are the make or break example for so many people when choosing a non-apple/non-google mobile OS. How much banking is everyone doing on-the-go?! Just use the website! Use the mobile website if you must!

juniperplant 5y ago
Maybe you did not read my last paragraph?
- uhtred 5y ago
  so you can't login to a bank website in the EU without having their app on your phone? WTF. Really? When did that happen? I know UK isn't in the EU anymore, but NatWest (UK bank) doesn't need me to have an app -- I can get an sms code.
  - juniperplant 5y ago
    No, but (at least in my country) most banks have used the PSD2 directive as a way to phase out HW tokens and force their proprietary apps to customers. But PSD2 does not really say this is required to comply. The only alternative they offer is SMS-based 2FA which, unsurprisingly, often has an additional cost.
depaulagu 5y ago
All the banks I use (in brazil), either only have mobile app to access the bank, or they require the bank's app to use the site (the app generates a 2FA token, you can't use a third-party 2fa manager like authy).
ant6n 5y ago
In the EU u need an app on the phone in order to do banking on the website. The app authenticates transactions.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
  That's not accurate. I validate all my transactions through SMS like I always have despite the directive.
  - juniperplant 5y ago
    I agree, but I would say the situation is not so good elsewhere. See my comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28135648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28135648
browningstreet 5y ago
Most banks only allow check deposit by mobile (as opposed to desktop), but yes, desktop can do a lot. I'm incorporated, and some of my clients (usually new ones) will pay with a check, so without mobile I'll have to visit a branch/atm to deposit those. And my banks still use SMS MFA, so I could login online using a dumber phone.

beshrkayali 5y ago

> first of all because it lacks GApps Anything that completely blocks Play services is a win in my book. Sweden is pretty much a willingly fully cashless society and you can still function normally without banking mobile apps, or with a stay-at-home-usually-off phone that you can use for bank app when needed, though at that point you can just use the website.

juniperplant 5y ago
> Anything that completely blocks Play services is a win in my book. In mine too, however... Don't banks in Sweden require a mobile app for 2FA?
- beshrkayali 5y ago
  You can usually ask for a hardware device (called something like a security token device) to login with.
lawn 5y ago
In Sweden you need BankId though, and it's really awkward to use their hardware thing.
- beshrkayali 5y ago
  It's actually faster than using BankId. And BankId is not a requirement, there's usually always an alternative.

tyingq 5y ago

Banking apps don't like rooted phones either, even if they do have GApps. My bank's app, though, isn't much different from their mobile web experience, so I just use that.

NorwegianDude 5y ago
You might be able to hide root using magisk(?). Did at least work the last time I tried, and the safety net checks passed without issues on lineage os.
- npteljes 5y ago
  Yes but then you're playing a cat-and-mouse game. Defaults are a big deal, if you think larger than the individual level.

yosamino 5y ago

> Because in the EU [apps] are required after the PSD2 directive mandated "strong" auth requirements. No. I recently set up an elderly neighbours online banking access. She has a laptop for some clerical work and email, but uses a dumbphone only. All the bigger banks I have been using offer a hardware device to generate authentication codes. These usually come with some sort of camera (there are multiple systems) that reads a code of the screen and they require a your bank card. I am sure not all the banks offer this, but it's so much better than some stupid app.

juniperplant 5y ago
> All the bigger banks I have been using offer a hardware device to generate authentication codes. I guess banks suck in my country.

JeremyNT 5y ago

For such things, you can have a dedicated device that runs the locked down proprietary stuff. Motorola sells some very cheap Android devices that would work for this purpose. The situation really is unfortunate, though.

mindslight 5y ago

Stop putting all your eggs in one basket! A cheap/used tablet is like $50-$100. Put your online banking apps and other surveillance-based-apps on it, and generally leave it at home. Mine has a red label on it that says "Full Take". You're then free to secure your mobile device with things that will best protect your location and communications, without worrying about lazy/invasive apps complaining. Also if you get mugged, an attacker can't make you sign into online banking and see that you have a bunch of money sitting in your accounts.

novok 5y ago
That is an interesting insight about the banking apps. The hypothetical mugger could make you login on the web versions although, so you will also need to not have your 2 factor banking items on the personal phone too.
npteljes 5y ago
I think compartmentalization can work for now, I have a Windows partition with a similarly limited scope - only for gaming.
- mindslight 5y ago
  Why only "for now" ? To me, compartmentalization is the future, as proprietary apps and platforms become ever more locked down. You'll have your "business device(s)" that engages with that world, that you're forced to compromise your Freedom for in various ways. And you'll also have your Free computers that run subversive freedom-preserving software that you can treat as trustable extensions of your own mind. Back when everyone had a single device, trying out Linux used to be such a trepidatious affair because you had to write down all the installation steps, make sure you had the install media in good order, and hope that you'd come out of it with a computer that still booted some OS. These days $20 will get you an independent machine capable of running Linux, and you can tinker to your heart's content without affecting your existing environment.
  - npteljes 5y ago