5 ms·

I guess in a purely commuting way, perhaps. But if 100 employees are all at home and are heating/cooling their houses all with different levels of insulation a

I guess in a purely commuting way, perhaps. But if 100 employees are all at home and are heating/cooling their houses all with different levels of insulation and efficiency, how does that compare to an office building that is controlled and built to be efficient? Or the amount of electric they use to power their home workstation and radio, rather than a shared office radio? Or lower power machines. Or the more shopping trips for lunch or deliveroo orders - because I can't just walk down the road to grab a sandwich. Or those who now drive or catch the bus/train after work to go for a pint - rather than stopping in on the way back. I'm totally all for staying working at home, but I do recognise that it's not just the commuting that has an effect here

ghaff 5y ago
If people own a house anyway, working in it during the day doesn't really add much in the energy use. Maybe there's a few degrees more heating or cooling at the margins. Maybe there are more trips to a store--on the other hand, restaurants and cafeterias aren't necessarily super-efficient.
- bennyp101 5y ago
  Perhaps, but anecdotally my electricity and gas bills have been much higher since I've been working at home - YMMV of course
  - Retric 5y ago
    The question is the relative amount of electrify and gas used at home vs the office plus commute. Running the same computer at home or the office clearly is irrelevant for the environment.
    - bennyp101 5y ago
      Is it though? Maybe my office uses an electricity supplier who charges a bit more, but uses as much renewable as possible, but at home my supplier doesn’t use any renewable, but is cheaper There are just too many factors involved to make a fair comparison - especially across countries
      - Retric 5y ago
        There is no such thing as a “green” electricity supplier in practice. It’s the same power plants connected to the same grid. Unused solar power isn’t going to be wasted in favor of gas turbines.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I'm sure it varies by the house/apartment. I don't really see a difference in electricity unless I'm traveling for an extended period but I have very limited AC which I don't use much. As for heat, the difference associated with dropping the temperature maybe 10 degrees F for 8 hours a day doesn't add up to a lot.
Retric 5y ago
Home temperature is fairly consistent over the day. Not having an office to heat or cool more than compensates for the difference. Commuting costs completely dominate in terms of energy costs. As to getting delivery for lunch, that’s well outside of most peoples price range. The vast majority of people are going to simply buy more food on their normal shopping trips. The running the same computer hardware at home or the office is meaningless for the environment, but you will notice the difference in your personal electric bill. Radio’s use minimal electricity ~25w depending on volume, which is why you can find hand crank models etc.
- glenneroo 5y ago
  I think both of you are making a lot of assumptions without providing any sources to back up your own anecdotal experiences. Also related, but HN could really use an optional country-flag next to each user's name so that we could at least see what country people are referring to respective their experiences which they state as "the way it is". > Home temperature is fairly consistent over the day. You must live in a mild climate where the outside temperature doesn't change much because everywhere I've lived in the world, you constantly turn on/off heating/fans/air-conditioning depending on the season and time of day. > Commuting costs completely dominate in terms of energy costs. Assuming usage of cars. Leave the US and generally public transportation is a thing used by most people. The trains/trams/buses still travel the same routes and times as before-pandemic times. > The running the same computer hardware at home or the office Why is that? My PCs at work each use ~150W and I never turn them off because Wake-On-Lan doesn't always work. I presume it's the same for most of my 700 co-workers who also WFH. That's a lot of KW and not to be scoffed at. > Radio’s use minimal electricity ~25w You are taking the minimal example of radio. I would guess that more than a negligible amount of people have something more substantial at home which uses more than 25w (including amp/speakers/wifi to connect to Alexa, etc), granted it's probably still not much and could even balance out with people who don't listen to radio while working? Who knows, IMO it's futile to even try to calculate this value globally.
  - Retric 5y ago
    > Assuming usage of cars. Leave the US and generally public transportation is a thing used by most people. The trains/trams/buses still travel the same routes and times as before-pandemic times. Across the US and presumably the world mass transit reduced service in response to reduced ridership. If WFH becomes more common that will definitely cover more areas as schedules very much are based on demand. Ex: https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-mta-subway-schedule-change-essential-service-plan/ https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-mta-subw... > IMO it's futile to even try to calculate this value globally. Electricity is directly measured at the grid level and 2020 saw a clear reduction, how much of that relates to WFH is more questionable.
lamontcg 5y ago
Those are really bizarre levels of trying to be counterintuitive. For lunch you can now walk to your refrigerator to get a sandwich. It burns much less carbon to just walk or drive to your nearest watering hole for a beer rather than driving to work in rush hour and then back in order to get a beer. Total transportation carbon emissions from the average household are also twice the total HVAC emissions, and carbon consumption due to appliances like refrigerators, washer/driers and hot water heaters should be relatively constant (could even go down if you just wear the same pair of sweatpants for a week).
- bennyp101 5y ago
  Completely :) I was just trying to point out that just the fact of stopping people commuting doesn't really mean a lot, there are a lot more things in play. I'm in the UK, and our houses are not really built for extreme temperature fluctuations, so in the summer I run the portable AC - which is terrible but otherwise we can't sleep. In the winter, it's crazy cold - but at least now we have the log burner in so not as bad. I think it does depend on where you are in the world, I can't walk to a pub, or a shop where I live. I have to drive further than my office to get to a supermarket or town. But yes, I may have not made great points in that post!

ghaff 5y ago

If people own a house anyway, working in it during the day doesn't really add much in the energy use. Maybe there's a few degrees more heating or cooling at the margins. Maybe there are more trips to a store--on the other hand, restaurants and cafeterias aren't necessarily super-efficient.

bennyp101 5y ago
Perhaps, but anecdotally my electricity and gas bills have been much higher since I've been working at home - YMMV of course
- Retric 5y ago
  The question is the relative amount of electrify and gas used at home vs the office plus commute. Running the same computer at home or the office clearly is irrelevant for the environment.
  - bennyp101 5y ago
    Is it though? Maybe my office uses an electricity supplier who charges a bit more, but uses as much renewable as possible, but at home my supplier doesn’t use any renewable, but is cheaper There are just too many factors involved to make a fair comparison - especially across countries
    - Retric 5y ago
      There is no such thing as a “green” electricity supplier in practice. It’s the same power plants connected to the same grid. Unused solar power isn’t going to be wasted in favor of gas turbines.
- ghaff 5y ago
  I'm sure it varies by the house/apartment. I don't really see a difference in electricity unless I'm traveling for an extended period but I have very limited AC which I don't use much. As for heat, the difference associated with dropping the temperature maybe 10 degrees F for 8 hours a day doesn't add up to a lot.

Retric 5y ago

Home temperature is fairly consistent over the day. Not having an office to heat or cool more than compensates for the difference. Commuting costs completely dominate in terms of energy costs. As to getting delivery for lunch, that’s well outside of most peoples price range. The vast majority of people are going to simply buy more food on their normal shopping trips. The running the same computer hardware at home or the office is meaningless for the environment, but you will notice the difference in your personal electric bill. Radio’s use minimal electricity ~25w depending on volume, which is why you can find hand crank models etc.

glenneroo 5y ago
I think both of you are making a lot of assumptions without providing any sources to back up your own anecdotal experiences. Also related, but HN could really use an optional country-flag next to each user's name so that we could at least see what country people are referring to respective their experiences which they state as "the way it is". > Home temperature is fairly consistent over the day. You must live in a mild climate where the outside temperature doesn't change much because everywhere I've lived in the world, you constantly turn on/off heating/fans/air-conditioning depending on the season and time of day. > Commuting costs completely dominate in terms of energy costs. Assuming usage of cars. Leave the US and generally public transportation is a thing used by most people. The trains/trams/buses still travel the same routes and times as before-pandemic times. > The running the same computer hardware at home or the office Why is that? My PCs at work each use ~150W and I never turn them off because Wake-On-Lan doesn't always work. I presume it's the same for most of my 700 co-workers who also WFH. That's a lot of KW and not to be scoffed at. > Radio’s use minimal electricity ~25w You are taking the minimal example of radio. I would guess that more than a negligible amount of people have something more substantial at home which uses more than 25w (including amp/speakers/wifi to connect to Alexa, etc), granted it's probably still not much and could even balance out with people who don't listen to radio while working? Who knows, IMO it's futile to even try to calculate this value globally.
- Retric 5y ago
  > Assuming usage of cars. Leave the US and generally public transportation is a thing used by most people. The trains/trams/buses still travel the same routes and times as before-pandemic times. Across the US and presumably the world mass transit reduced service in response to reduced ridership. If WFH becomes more common that will definitely cover more areas as schedules very much are based on demand. Ex: https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-mta-subway-schedule-change-essential-service-plan/ https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-mta-subw... > IMO it's futile to even try to calculate this value globally. Electricity is directly measured at the grid level and 2020 saw a clear reduction, how much of that relates to WFH is more questionable.

lamontcg 5y ago

Those are really bizarre levels of trying to be counterintuitive. For lunch you can now walk to your refrigerator to get a sandwich. It burns much less carbon to just walk or drive to your nearest watering hole for a beer rather than driving to work in rush hour and then back in order to get a beer. Total transportation carbon emissions from the average household are also twice the total HVAC emissions, and carbon consumption due to appliances like refrigerators, washer/driers and hot water heaters should be relatively constant (could even go down if you just wear the same pair of sweatpants for a week).

bennyp101 5y ago
Completely :) I was just trying to point out that just the fact of stopping people commuting doesn't really mean a lot, there are a lot more things in play. I'm in the UK, and our houses are not really built for extreme temperature fluctuations, so in the summer I run the portable AC - which is terrible but otherwise we can't sleep. In the winter, it's crazy cold - but at least now we have the log burner in so not as bad. I think it does depend on where you are in the world, I can't walk to a pub, or a shop where I live. I have to drive further than my office to get to a supermarket or town. But yes, I may have not made great points in that post!