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What’s not to say the logs of the scans being performed on my device will be uploaded and stored off my device forever anyway? The point I was trying to make w

What’s not to say the logs of the scans being performed on my device will be uploaded and stored off my device forever anyway? The point I was trying to make was privacy reasons aside their motivation of doing it on the users device is scummy. Why don’t they mine Bitcoin on my iPhone while they are at it?

GeekyBear 5y ago
If there is a false positive, I don't want that fact to ever leave my phone, instead of residing on Google's servers forever, where it can be subpoenaed and misused. Apple's approach here is far superior from a privacy standpoint. >1. Only if you're uploading files are the files matched. 2. Only if the matches are very close are they considered matches. 3. Only if you have multiple very close matches is Apple able to decrypt the low-res versions of the images themselves. 4. Only if a human reviewer discovers any of the decrypted low-res images to be illegal content is any of your information shared with anyone else. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28120598 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28120598
- fsociety 5y ago
  It’s only superior from a privacy standpoint if you completely trust Apple and humans to get this right. I don’t. At least with server side your images are being scanned when you are actively sharing photos with other users or to the internet. Thus making it more difficult to distribute CSAM material. If iMessage was serious about preventing child abuse, they should be introducing mechanisms to prevent actual abuse from occurring on their platform.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    As opposed to trusting Google? A company well known for refusing to hire human beings when their flawed machine learning models are a less accurate but cheaper option? Again, Apple is not scanning images until you try to upload them to the cloud. Just like Google.
- CTDOCodebases 5y ago
  How can you prove that this will always be the case? For now that’s the way things are done but it’s a slippery slope. I don’t want anything of mine to be scanned but these days it’s fair to assume that anything that is not self hosted is not private.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    > How can you prove that this will always be the case? How can you prove that Google isn't intentionally turning in a huge number of unnecessary false positives because of their well known aversion to hiring human beings when flawed machine learning models are cheaper?
    - CTDOCodebases 5y ago
      Easily. Currently I have a choice to not use their services and I exercise that choice. I don't trust Google and I don't trust Apple. Apple can perform the same process on their iCloud servers but choose not to. The way they are approaching the problem speeds up the erosion of privacy. In other words I reject the false dichotomy you are presenting.
      - GeekyBear 5y ago
        I reject Google spying on everything you do, including buying a copy of your credit card transaction records so they can spy on everything you do in the real world, just as they already spy on everything you do online. >Google has been able to track your location using Google Maps for a long time. Since 2014, it has used that information to provide advertisers with information on how often people visit their stores. But store visits aren’t purchases, so, as Google said in a blog post on its new service for marketers, it has partnered with “third parties” that give them access to 70 percent of all credit and debit card purchases. https://www.technologyreview.com/2017/05/25/242717/google-now-tracks-your-credit-card-purchases-and-connects-them-to-its-online-profile-of-you/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2017/05/25/242717/google-no...

GeekyBear 5y ago

If there is a false positive, I don't want that fact to ever leave my phone, instead of residing on Google's servers forever, where it can be subpoenaed and misused. Apple's approach here is far superior from a privacy standpoint. >1. Only if you're uploading files are the files matched. 2. Only if the matches are very close are they considered matches. 3. Only if you have multiple very close matches is Apple able to decrypt the low-res versions of the images themselves. 4. Only if a human reviewer discovers any of the decrypted low-res images to be illegal content is any of your information shared with anyone else. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28120598 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28120598

fsociety 5y ago
It’s only superior from a privacy standpoint if you completely trust Apple and humans to get this right. I don’t. At least with server side your images are being scanned when you are actively sharing photos with other users or to the internet. Thus making it more difficult to distribute CSAM material. If iMessage was serious about preventing child abuse, they should be introducing mechanisms to prevent actual abuse from occurring on their platform.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  As opposed to trusting Google? A company well known for refusing to hire human beings when their flawed machine learning models are a less accurate but cheaper option? Again, Apple is not scanning images until you try to upload them to the cloud. Just like Google.
CTDOCodebases 5y ago
How can you prove that this will always be the case? For now that’s the way things are done but it’s a slippery slope. I don’t want anything of mine to be scanned but these days it’s fair to assume that anything that is not self hosted is not private.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  > How can you prove that this will always be the case? How can you prove that Google isn't intentionally turning in a huge number of unnecessary false positives because of their well known aversion to hiring human beings when flawed machine learning models are cheaper?
  - CTDOCodebases 5y ago
    Easily. Currently I have a choice to not use their services and I exercise that choice. I don't trust Google and I don't trust Apple. Apple can perform the same process on their iCloud servers but choose not to. The way they are approaching the problem speeds up the erosion of privacy. In other words I reject the false dichotomy you are presenting.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      I reject Google spying on everything you do, including buying a copy of your credit card transaction records so they can spy on everything you do in the real world, just as they already spy on everything you do online. >Google has been able to track your location using Google Maps for a long time. Since 2014, it has used that information to provide advertisers with information on how often people visit their stores. But store visits aren’t purchases, so, as Google said in a blog post on its new service for marketers, it has partnered with “third parties” that give them access to 70 percent of all credit and debit card purchases. https://www.technologyreview.com/2017/05/25/242717/google-now-tracks-your-credit-card-purchases-and-connects-them-to-its-online-profile-of-you/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2017/05/25/242717/google-no...