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My wife went through the French "classe préparatoire" system and describes a similar degree of raw effort that was put into her studies (and in particular, math

My wife went through the French "classe préparatoire" system and describes a similar degree of raw effort that was put into her studies (and in particular, mathematics). She talks about spending 10-12 hours a day either in class or studying at home, and I have to admit the amount of knowledge in that woman's head is absolutely astounding. Her education is elite in the same way that a sports team or military unit can be elite. There are obviously issues with pushing young adults this hard, but my overall feeling is that American schools need more of this.

tamcap 5y ago
As an immigrant in the US from Central Europe, I am blown away by how much time American children spend on extracurriculars vs academics (at least based on what I see around me). My extracurriculars in high school were maaaybe 5 hours a week. Some kids in the US spend 5 hours a day, every day. And don't get me started on varsity sports - that starts to resemble a job!
- omginternets 5y ago
  In hindsight, after spending nearly a decade in France (initially for graduate school), it seems very strange to me as well. I've come away from this with the impression that American schools are the best-funded in the world, and survive by importing the best-educated from elsewhere. This is obviously a bit of a caricature, but I think it's mostly correct.
  - BitwiseFool 5y ago
    Extracurricular activities are a way for US students to stand out in terms of college admissions. When I was in high school our college advisors told us that Universities look to fill niches in each class year. Good students are relatively interchangeable, but if the University wants a Lacrosse team, an Equestrian team, some Oboe players, and stagehands for its drama department it will look for applicants that have those backgrounds already. So, if you happen to have decent grades but a background in some niche thing, you are much more likely to be selected. So in that sense, going from a B+ to an A- in terms of overall GPA isn't going to help as much as having some in-demand skill.
    - omginternets 5y ago
      >Extracurricular activities are a way for US students to stand out in terms of college admissions. You are of course correct, but I think the parent comment is implying that this is a rather unfortunate situation. I agree with him to a large extent. My experience with the French system has left me with the sense that American schooling has to some extent cheated me out of an education. On the other hand, I look at my wife (and other "prépa" students as well) and conclude that they suffer from a certain lack of imagination and intrinsic motivation, both of which have personally benefitted me greatly, and which I attribute to something in American culture. As my wife puts it (I'm paraphrasing, obviously): "We were never asked what we enjoyed doing; if you were a good student, you were put on the good-student-track, which was a math/science-heavy curriculum. To this day, I don't really know what I want to do; I just know what I can do, and I feel an obligation to excel at it." She's an absolute brute at math, but she doesn't like it, and I think she would have been much happier studying something like literature. So my feeling on the matter the French educational system is one of ambivalence, overall. Nevertheless, I am convinced the US has strayed much too far in the other direction.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  My 10-year old nephew plays on 6 different baseball teams. He literally plays more baseball games than my uncle did when he was a AA player :)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
maga 5y ago
A bit tangential here, but our calculus/math analysis professor actually told us that the Russian and later Soviet math school drew a lot from the French, although, he might have been biased due to his apparent partiality towards Bourbaki. According to him, the university level math was taught exclusively in French during the Tsarist times, and they had some troubles coming up with Russian terminology when Soviets ordered all teaching to be done in Russian.
- skeletal88 5y ago
  The language of the tsarist elite was french. They even didn't need to know russian, except for speaking to their servants

tamcap 5y ago

As an immigrant in the US from Central Europe, I am blown away by how much time American children spend on extracurriculars vs academics (at least based on what I see around me). My extracurriculars in high school were maaaybe 5 hours a week. Some kids in the US spend 5 hours a day, every day. And don't get me started on varsity sports - that starts to resemble a job!

omginternets 5y ago
In hindsight, after spending nearly a decade in France (initially for graduate school), it seems very strange to me as well. I've come away from this with the impression that American schools are the best-funded in the world, and survive by importing the best-educated from elsewhere. This is obviously a bit of a caricature, but I think it's mostly correct.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  Extracurricular activities are a way for US students to stand out in terms of college admissions. When I was in high school our college advisors told us that Universities look to fill niches in each class year. Good students are relatively interchangeable, but if the University wants a Lacrosse team, an Equestrian team, some Oboe players, and stagehands for its drama department it will look for applicants that have those backgrounds already. So, if you happen to have decent grades but a background in some niche thing, you are much more likely to be selected. So in that sense, going from a B+ to an A- in terms of overall GPA isn't going to help as much as having some in-demand skill.
  - omginternets 5y ago
    >Extracurricular activities are a way for US students to stand out in terms of college admissions. You are of course correct, but I think the parent comment is implying that this is a rather unfortunate situation. I agree with him to a large extent. My experience with the French system has left me with the sense that American schooling has to some extent cheated me out of an education. On the other hand, I look at my wife (and other "prépa" students as well) and conclude that they suffer from a certain lack of imagination and intrinsic motivation, both of which have personally benefitted me greatly, and which I attribute to something in American culture. As my wife puts it (I'm paraphrasing, obviously): "We were never asked what we enjoyed doing; if you were a good student, you were put on the good-student-track, which was a math/science-heavy curriculum. To this day, I don't really know what I want to do; I just know what I can do, and I feel an obligation to excel at it." She's an absolute brute at math, but she doesn't like it, and I think she would have been much happier studying something like literature. So my feeling on the matter the French educational system is one of ambivalence, overall. Nevertheless, I am convinced the US has strayed much too far in the other direction.
Spooky23 5y ago
My 10-year old nephew plays on 6 different baseball teams. He literally plays more baseball games than my uncle did when he was a AA player :)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

maga 5y ago

A bit tangential here, but our calculus/math analysis professor actually told us that the Russian and later Soviet math school drew a lot from the French, although, he might have been biased due to his apparent partiality towards Bourbaki. According to him, the university level math was taught exclusively in French during the Tsarist times, and they had some troubles coming up with Russian terminology when Soviets ordered all teaching to be done in Russian.

skeletal88 5y ago
The language of the tsarist elite was french. They even didn't need to know russian, except for speaking to their servants