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Yes. This reminds me of when typing or receiving certain text would make an iPhone crash. But now having your account deleted makes it a feature. For example Wh
by mimsee 5y ago
Yes. This reminds me of when typing or receiving certain text would make an iPhone crash. But now having your account deleted makes it a feature. For example Whatsapp automatically downloads media to the camera roll which then get uploaded to iCloud. Of course that can be turned off prior, but this is like what happens with backing up. People want to backup, but don't invest the time in it. That's until it's too late, they lost their data and now want their stuff back.
- laurent92 5y agoBackup is a good point: - Apple: “Backup your phone to iCloud, it will be safe there.” - 5 minutes later: “We’ve wiped your account because of a photos of (porn actor here) which is not CP but technically minor at the time she filmed.” - “Also we’ve wiped your iPhone because we couldn’t knowingly let you keep that. Good luck contacting your parents, we’ve deleted your contacts. Good luck! PS: We’ve reported you to the police.” - Also you can’t connect to your iMac now.
- annamargot 5y agoOr photos of your own children. We have a Tumblr set up for family to view pics of the kids. Several photos and videos of our kids when they were under 2 were taken down either temporarily or permanently by their CP algo. These were a pic or video of kids in the bath or without a shirt. In none of them could you see bum or bits. Just a semi naked baby. Algorithms like this get things wrong all the time
- tpush 5y agoThis is not the kind of algorithm that Apple is be using. That one only scans for already known CSAM in NCMEC's database.
- shakna 5y agoWhich may contain the hashes of their photos, because they've been taken down in the past, which means they probably have been added to certain blacklists that may have been integrated into the blackbox of NCMEC's database.
- simondotau 5y agoPhotographs of your naked child in the bath are not illegal, are not CSAM, and are not going to be in the NCMEC's database.
- shakna 5y agoNCMEC's CSAM database already includes images that are not necessarily illegal. If _your particular_ photos have been flagged in the past, they may well be part of the database.
- culturestate 5y ago> NCMEC's CSAM database already includes images that are not necessarily illegal. How could this be the case? If it's been determined to be CSAM then it is, by definition, illegal. If it were true that the database is likely to contain legal material, how would we possibly know about it, given that the contents of the database are secret?
- shakna 5y ago> How could this be the case? If it's been determined to be CSAM then it is, by definition, illegal. Certain images are CSAM by _context_. They do not necessarily require those within the image to be abused, but rather that the image at one time or another was traded alongside other CSAM. > If it were true that the database is likely to contain legal material, how would we possibly know about it, given that the contents of the database are secret? Tools like Spotlight [0] make use of the database, so certain well-known images are known to flag. Such as Nirvana's controversial cover for Nevermind. [0] https://www.wired.com/story/how-facial-recognition-fighting-child-sex-trafficking/ https://www.wired.com/story/how-facial-recognition-fighting-...
- ElFitz 5y agoQuite funnily and disturbingly, one the databases of "known CSAM" hashes also apparently includes a picture of a clothed man holding a monkey[1] [1]: https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/929-One-Bad-Apple.html https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/929-On...
- severak_cz 5y agoThat was just a MD5 collision - an image that has same MD5 hash as some other image (in this case some CP). This is uncommon yet possible thing - see this example[0]. [0] https://natmchugh.blogspot.com/2014/11/three-way-md5-collision.html https://natmchugh.blogspot.com/2014/11/three-way-md5-collisi...
- tyingq 5y agoI think a flawed process where the monkey image ended up in the database is more likely than a random unintentional hash collision.
- zarzavat 5y agoNot really. MD5 is thoroughly and completely broken, and has been for years. You can modify an image to be an MD5 collision for another image.
- tyingq 5y agoThat would be an intentional collision. An unintentional collision remains unlikely for a cryptographic hash.
- nullc 5y agoNot just unlikely but astronomically unlikely.
- nullc 5y agoNo you cannot. A collision requires the attacker to create both images. What you are describing is a second preimage attack-- creating a second input with the same hash as a target. There is no currently known tractable way to create second preimages for MD5.
- simondotau 5y agoThis isn't an ML algorithm. It's a hash. It only matches already known material.
- samrolken 5y agoIt is a hash created with ML. So it’s both. But yes, it only matches already known material.
- simondotau 5y agoI haven't seen anyone claim that any of this algorithm was "created with ML". I'm interested in learning more so do you have a citation for that? Regardless, it's not both. Setting aside how the algorithm was created, it's incorrect to say that an algorithm "created with ML" is itself an ML algorithm. NeuralHash was so named because it was optimised to run on the Apple Neural Engine for the sake of speed and power efficiency.
- samrolken 5y agoIt’s both because it’s a multi-step process. The image is not fed directly into the hashing function, like taking an MD5 hash of a file or something. Rather, the image is first evaluated by a neural net that looks at specific visual details, and has been trained to match even if the image has been cropped or anything like that. The results of the neural net evaluation are what is then input for the hashing function. This is explained in detail in Apple’s documentation they released with the announcement.
- bingidingi 5y agouhh how is it not cp if someone is a minor