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I'm Serbian and moved to the UK when I was 10. A lot of this is a bit hazy now, but I really clearly recall my bewilderment during the first class-wide 'mental

I'm Serbian and moved to the UK when I was 10. A lot of this is a bit hazy now, but I really clearly recall my bewilderment during the first class-wide 'mental arithmetic' tests in year 5 where I thought the whole class was playing a prank on me. In Serbia I remembered doing quadratics and even touching on differentiation in the afterschool classes, but over here in the UK they were expecting me to take 20 seconds to do simple mental maths (I remember 8x3+17 being the 'hardest one'). The other kids were pretty fascinated with my slightly different long division methods, but the teachers were just obsessed with making me write an `x` instead of a `·` when writing out my multiplication, and trying to make me change the methods I'd learned previously. I stopped finding maths interesting at that point (age 11) and it breaks my heart to this day. What I knew was enough to get me a couple of 'best-in-school + gold' medals in that Year 8 maths challenge, but it was all Bs and Cs at a-level. I did rediscover a genuine interest in mathematics again at uni as part of the foundations of AI course (CS degree), but that was short-lived and frustrating, as I knew I should have been better.

thinkingemote 5y ago
As a Brit, I was never any good at mental math at school, I still cannot do that hardest one without a calculator. But later on, I swam like a fish in water in geometry, trig, logic and loved algebra and moved from the last of my year to one of the top. I was doing integration etc a good two years before it was being taught in the higher classes. These skills are good for programming and computers. There was a limit; basically theorems, multi dimensional stuff and unreal? math, primes, pure math etc were completely out of my scope. Strange I guess, perhaps these are connected with being good at mental arithmetic? My point is that I also think it's bizarre on the British obsession with mental maths early on, when for many algebra might be better and easier.
- mkl95 5y ago
  In my country (and I'd say this happens in some other EU countries), you do a ton of basic algebra as a kid, then take some rushed calculus and linear algebra 1-2 years before uni. Once you pretend you have mastered the basics, there is a sudden, strange focus on advanced Calculus heuristics and obscure linear algebra techniques, effectively making most people hate these subjects. The way you are taught the stuff is basically a crime against Mathematics since it drives talented people away from STEM careers.
- javajosh 5y ago
  I felt the same way, but I noticed professors I admired often doing arithmetic in their head, clearly because they enjoyed doing it. So since then I make an effort to mentally calculate. And you know what? It's a more interesting hobby than you'd think. Whatever technique you adopt (or grow, in my case), it's a good, concrete, occasionally useful exercise in breaking down a problem into smaller parts, and then combining those simple results into something else. Or maybe it's vanity. But I will say it's depressing to see all the cashiers (in the US) that can't seem to do any kind of math in their head, not even to minimize change (which seems totally ubiquitous in many other parts of the world; in fact, some cultures are aggressive about optimizing your change - China comes to mind).
  - confidantlake 5y ago
    I feel that in the US any cashier that could do mental math would soon move on to a better paying job.
- pulkitsh1234 5y ago
  I still have a hard time in mental arithmetics. During my school days, this is one of the things which had instilled the "math phobia" in me. I never really took an interest in math, until I started doing competitive programming in college. I had to literally build a new understanding of division, multiplication, modulus, etc., it's difficult to explain. But I feel really ashamed in admitting that I still suck at math, probably because I just hated it during school days and no one was there to guide me. I don't really like blaming things on others, but I am not sure what else I could've done to learn math.
- 2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
  I think mental arithmetic is one of those things that simply requires vast amounts of practise. I’m quite slow at it, but when I’m forced to do a lot of it, say for keeping score. I quickly get faster. I too was much better at applied maths and stats. It was fairly easy for me. But my brain just shuts down doing pure math.
- TheMightyLlama 5y ago
  I'm in exactly the same position at the age of 40. I've attempted to memorise the times table to no avail. It seems to me one of those things that you need to know cold. And then from there you can look at other things. To me mathematics is a thing of beauty I just find I havent found the right handle to grasp it with. I ask myself what would be the order in which one could most easily absorb the material. Does it really start with rote learning?
  - wheelinsupial 5y ago
    > I ask myself what would be the order in which one could most easily absorb the material. Does it really start with rote learning? What are you trying to learn and why? Math starts with axioms, which are some statements that everything else is built from. Axioms, as far as I understand, can't be derived. These are the most basic building blocks. Then through logic and deductions other machinery is built up. There is a certain amount that does need to be internalized or memorized, but that is the same for learning the alphabet. In math classes, at least at the university level in Canada, knowing the statement of definitions and theorems covered exactly is somewhat important. If it's a proof based course this is more important, but the theorem will tell you where it's applicable, so knowing that helps. Math builds. It took me until a third year complex analysis course to build up enough courage to ask a prof how he solves problems. Basically he said he has a hierarchy of theorems in a given field. When he sees a problem he will go through each of them starting with the easiest to apply and check the assumptions. If it applies, then he will use it and get the result. If not, move on to the next one. He goes and looks up the exact statements and how to go through with the calculations and checks. If you forget something, look it up. Eventually after solving enough problems you'll build up some intuition and muscle memory for the problems. As to how to progress, I am not sure. Some mathematicians say you kind of just pick things up and then connect the threads later on. It's not always possible to march through in a linear manner because there isn't an absolute ordering in what to learn. There should be an appendix in the back of a textbook that reviews or outlines what's required for the book. There will be a few questions that rely on outside knowledge, but one can still learn the majority of the concepts without going to far afield for review. Start with what you want and fill in the rest of the gaps by working backwards. I wouldn't worry about memorizing the times tables (unless maybe you're interested in number theory?) if you're trying to learn math. Know algebra, functions, and graphing as a minimum, then start to learn what you want... I would just use a calculator or pencil and paper to multiply things out on homework. If this is for personal benefit, then don't hesitate to get some numerical methods involved to help learning the material.
noobsaibot 5y ago
i remember me coming to germany with 11/12 and having to tell odd from even numbers in a test; after trigonometry and beginning of integrals in russia.
gambiting 5y ago
I went to a British university, CS course, at the age of 19, having completed my education in Poland. I had a very similar experience(except no one cared whether you wrote x or .) - basically at university it was like going back 5-10 years in terms of maths level. We were already doing advanced calculus in Poland in my last year at school(and being constantly told that we have to know it well or no one at university will explain it to us), and then at the UK university I went to we spent the first year just going through extremely simple algebra. It honestly felt like I was doing something wrong.
- sjg007 5y ago
  >British university, CS course Hmm.. In my experience this would have been discrete math at best which is normal in CS classes. You'd have to have taken an engineering elective or math elective to get linear algebra. Today, with AI being so hot, I'd bet that the programs include math for engineers e.g. matrices and linear algebra. Maybe an intro course in stats and probability.
  - arethuza 5y ago
    That wasn't my experience in doing a CS degree in the 1980s - we basically did the same maths as the engineers for two years and then diverged into more discrete maths in 3rd year of a 4 year course. And this isn't even counting the pure CS mathematical components such as lambda calculus etc.
  - dan-robertson 5y ago
    At my university in the U.K. we called the kind of linear algebra that computer scientists do “vectors and matrices.” It involved grids of numbers and maybe things like decompositions and eigenvalues/vectors. Computer scientists might get to go into topics like numerical stability or decomposition that are useful for computation. These have lots of practical uses and are relevant to topics like graph theory or Markov chains. The thing we called “linear algebra” involved linear maps and vector spaces and bases and dual spaces and no grids of numbers.
- dan-robertson 5y ago

thinkingemote 5y ago

As a Brit, I was never any good at mental math at school, I still cannot do that hardest one without a calculator. But later on, I swam like a fish in water in geometry, trig, logic and loved algebra and moved from the last of my year to one of the top. I was doing integration etc a good two years before it was being taught in the higher classes. These skills are good for programming and computers. There was a limit; basically theorems, multi dimensional stuff and unreal? math, primes, pure math etc were completely out of my scope. Strange I guess, perhaps these are connected with being good at mental arithmetic? My point is that I also think it's bizarre on the British obsession with mental maths early on, when for many algebra might be better and easier.

mkl95 5y ago
In my country (and I'd say this happens in some other EU countries), you do a ton of basic algebra as a kid, then take some rushed calculus and linear algebra 1-2 years before uni. Once you pretend you have mastered the basics, there is a sudden, strange focus on advanced Calculus heuristics and obscure linear algebra techniques, effectively making most people hate these subjects. The way you are taught the stuff is basically a crime against Mathematics since it drives talented people away from STEM careers.
javajosh 5y ago
I felt the same way, but I noticed professors I admired often doing arithmetic in their head, clearly because they enjoyed doing it. So since then I make an effort to mentally calculate. And you know what? It's a more interesting hobby than you'd think. Whatever technique you adopt (or grow, in my case), it's a good, concrete, occasionally useful exercise in breaking down a problem into smaller parts, and then combining those simple results into something else. Or maybe it's vanity. But I will say it's depressing to see all the cashiers (in the US) that can't seem to do any kind of math in their head, not even to minimize change (which seems totally ubiquitous in many other parts of the world; in fact, some cultures are aggressive about optimizing your change - China comes to mind).
- confidantlake 5y ago
  I feel that in the US any cashier that could do mental math would soon move on to a better paying job.
pulkitsh1234 5y ago
I still have a hard time in mental arithmetics. During my school days, this is one of the things which had instilled the "math phobia" in me. I never really took an interest in math, until I started doing competitive programming in college. I had to literally build a new understanding of division, multiplication, modulus, etc., it's difficult to explain. But I feel really ashamed in admitting that I still suck at math, probably because I just hated it during school days and no one was there to guide me. I don't really like blaming things on others, but I am not sure what else I could've done to learn math.
2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
I think mental arithmetic is one of those things that simply requires vast amounts of practise. I’m quite slow at it, but when I’m forced to do a lot of it, say for keeping score. I quickly get faster. I too was much better at applied maths and stats. It was fairly easy for me. But my brain just shuts down doing pure math.
TheMightyLlama 5y ago
I'm in exactly the same position at the age of 40. I've attempted to memorise the times table to no avail. It seems to me one of those things that you need to know cold. And then from there you can look at other things. To me mathematics is a thing of beauty I just find I havent found the right handle to grasp it with. I ask myself what would be the order in which one could most easily absorb the material. Does it really start with rote learning?
- wheelinsupial 5y ago
  > I ask myself what would be the order in which one could most easily absorb the material. Does it really start with rote learning? What are you trying to learn and why? Math starts with axioms, which are some statements that everything else is built from. Axioms, as far as I understand, can't be derived. These are the most basic building blocks. Then through logic and deductions other machinery is built up. There is a certain amount that does need to be internalized or memorized, but that is the same for learning the alphabet. In math classes, at least at the university level in Canada, knowing the statement of definitions and theorems covered exactly is somewhat important. If it's a proof based course this is more important, but the theorem will tell you where it's applicable, so knowing that helps. Math builds. It took me until a third year complex analysis course to build up enough courage to ask a prof how he solves problems. Basically he said he has a hierarchy of theorems in a given field. When he sees a problem he will go through each of them starting with the easiest to apply and check the assumptions. If it applies, then he will use it and get the result. If not, move on to the next one. He goes and looks up the exact statements and how to go through with the calculations and checks. If you forget something, look it up. Eventually after solving enough problems you'll build up some intuition and muscle memory for the problems. As to how to progress, I am not sure. Some mathematicians say you kind of just pick things up and then connect the threads later on. It's not always possible to march through in a linear manner because there isn't an absolute ordering in what to learn. There should be an appendix in the back of a textbook that reviews or outlines what's required for the book. There will be a few questions that rely on outside knowledge, but one can still learn the majority of the concepts without going to far afield for review. Start with what you want and fill in the rest of the gaps by working backwards. I wouldn't worry about memorizing the times tables (unless maybe you're interested in number theory?) if you're trying to learn math. Know algebra, functions, and graphing as a minimum, then start to learn what you want... I would just use a calculator or pencil and paper to multiply things out on homework. If this is for personal benefit, then don't hesitate to get some numerical methods involved to help learning the material.

noobsaibot 5y ago

i remember me coming to germany with 11/12 and having to tell odd from even numbers in a test; after trigonometry and beginning of integrals in russia.

gambiting 5y ago

I went to a British university, CS course, at the age of 19, having completed my education in Poland. I had a very similar experience(except no one cared whether you wrote x or .) - basically at university it was like going back 5-10 years in terms of maths level. We were already doing advanced calculus in Poland in my last year at school(and being constantly told that we have to know it well or no one at university will explain it to us), and then at the UK university I went to we spent the first year just going through extremely simple algebra. It honestly felt like I was doing something wrong.

sjg007 5y ago
>British university, CS course Hmm.. In my experience this would have been discrete math at best which is normal in CS classes. You'd have to have taken an engineering elective or math elective to get linear algebra. Today, with AI being so hot, I'd bet that the programs include math for engineers e.g. matrices and linear algebra. Maybe an intro course in stats and probability.
- arethuza 5y ago
  That wasn't my experience in doing a CS degree in the 1980s - we basically did the same maths as the engineers for two years and then diverged into more discrete maths in 3rd year of a 4 year course. And this isn't even counting the pure CS mathematical components such as lambda calculus etc.
- dan-robertson 5y ago
  At my university in the U.K. we called the kind of linear algebra that computer scientists do “vectors and matrices.” It involved grids of numbers and maybe things like decompositions and eigenvalues/vectors. Computer scientists might get to go into topics like numerical stability or decomposition that are useful for computation. These have lots of practical uses and are relevant to topics like graph theory or Markov chains. The thing we called “linear algebra” involved linear maps and vector spaces and bases and dual spaces and no grids of numbers.
dan-robertson 5y ago