4 ms·

Apple is doing the right thing. About 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 13 boys experience child sexual abuse in the US at some point in childhood (underreported) [1]. Wha

Apple is doing the right thing. About 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 13 boys experience child sexual abuse in the US at some point in childhood (underreported) [1]. What's more important? Your right to "privacy" (which you can still invoke by simply not using iCloud) or their right to a normal life? And yes, their CSAM detection has lots of false-positives, but it will evolve. It will be doubleplusgood. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childsexualabuse/fastfact.html https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childsexualabuse/fast...

Dah00n 5y ago
>What's more important? Your right to "privacy" (which you can still invoke by simply not using iCloud) or their right to a normal life? My right to privacy of course because the other option is a strawman. What you are doing is the typical slippery slope of selling out something for everyone because of a small minority of criminals. "Should criminal Mr. X be allowed to do Bad-Thing-At-Level-10 to Small-Amount or should we do Bad-Thing-At-Level-1 to Everyone?" None of these are correct. Both are or should be illegal. Did you look into this? Because those who know how this system work says that not only will Apple's system not work it is also clearly illegal: https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/929-One-Bad-Apple.html https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/929-On... This is getting rolled out in the US, with one of (if not the) biggest populations of innocent people being put in prison in the western world. Where mass-surveillance is, well, massive. If this hasn't specifically been made to be abused as a backdoor it will quickly any way.
- charbonneau 5y ago
  25% of all girls (officially). That's not a small minority of criminals, that's a national tragedy. Americans must use every legal and constitutional tool in their arsenal to fight abuse and protect their children. The numbers make clear that the old rules no longer work. And it's "clearly illegal" because of... what? Because his (unnamed) attorney claims it's a felony? What if a different attorney claims it's perfectly legal? It's just a CSAM detector for content you upload to iCloud. We're willing to shut down schools and shops to save lives but if there's a theoretical .000001% chance that some rando might look at my beach photos, it's suddenly mass-surveillance backdoor China stuff? Come on. We live in a society.
  - feanaro 5y ago
    25% of all girls what?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - charbonneau 5y ago
      "About 1 in 4 girls [...] experience child sexual abuse at some point in childhood." https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childsexualabuse/fastfact.html https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childsexualabuse/fast...
      - feanaro 5y ago
        How is this general and decontexualised number, with no definition of what is considered "sex abuse", relevant to the matter of scanning for pornographic images on iPhones? You're trying to play to people's emotions by emphasizing the perceived gravity and prevalence of the problem of sex abuse in general, and then trying to use that emotional momentum to argue for something largely unrelated.
  - latexr 5y ago
    > Americans must use every legal and constitutional tool in their arsenal to fight abuse and protect their children. They could start by regulating guns. That would prevent the death, injury, and traumatisation of many children[1]. As a bonus, it would do the same for adults[2]. Or they could deal with the “urgent and preventable crisis” of having 1 in 6 children living in poverty[3]. People in these discussions aren’t against protecting children. Rather, they’re questioning the ulterior motives behind specific policies. If governments and companies could be trusted to keep their promises and not overreach, no one would be batting an eye at the recent Apple announcement. But historically, the inverse has been true: they’re pretty much guaranteed to try to abuse the system. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... [3]: https://www.childrensdefense.org/policy/resources/soac-2020-child-poverty/ https://www.childrensdefense.org/policy/resources/soac-2020-...
matheusmoreira 5y ago
So what? Children are suffering so everyone must submit to surveillance? No. If abuse happens at all, you've already lost. Detecting pictures isn't gonna undo anything that happened in them.
- charbonneau 5y ago
  I suggest you read my comment again.

Dah00n 5y ago

>What's more important? Your right to "privacy" (which you can still invoke by simply not using iCloud) or their right to a normal life? My right to privacy of course because the other option is a strawman. What you are doing is the typical slippery slope of selling out something for everyone because of a small minority of criminals. "Should criminal Mr. X be allowed to do Bad-Thing-At-Level-10 to Small-Amount or should we do Bad-Thing-At-Level-1 to Everyone?" None of these are correct. Both are or should be illegal. Did you look into this? Because those who know how this system work says that not only will Apple's system not work it is also clearly illegal: https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/929-One-Bad-Apple.html https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/929-On... This is getting rolled out in the US, with one of (if not the) biggest populations of innocent people being put in prison in the western world. Where mass-surveillance is, well, massive. If this hasn't specifically been made to be abused as a backdoor it will quickly any way.

charbonneau 5y ago
25% of all girls (officially). That's not a small minority of criminals, that's a national tragedy. Americans must use every legal and constitutional tool in their arsenal to fight abuse and protect their children. The numbers make clear that the old rules no longer work. And it's "clearly illegal" because of... what? Because his (unnamed) attorney claims it's a felony? What if a different attorney claims it's perfectly legal? It's just a CSAM detector for content you upload to iCloud. We're willing to shut down schools and shops to save lives but if there's a theoretical .000001% chance that some rando might look at my beach photos, it's suddenly mass-surveillance backdoor China stuff? Come on. We live in a society.
- feanaro 5y ago
  25% of all girls what?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - charbonneau 5y ago
    "About 1 in 4 girls [...] experience child sexual abuse at some point in childhood." https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childsexualabuse/fastfact.html https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childsexualabuse/fast...
    - feanaro 5y ago
      How is this general and decontexualised number, with no definition of what is considered "sex abuse", relevant to the matter of scanning for pornographic images on iPhones? You're trying to play to people's emotions by emphasizing the perceived gravity and prevalence of the problem of sex abuse in general, and then trying to use that emotional momentum to argue for something largely unrelated.
- latexr 5y ago
  > Americans must use every legal and constitutional tool in their arsenal to fight abuse and protect their children. They could start by regulating guns. That would prevent the death, injury, and traumatisation of many children[1]. As a bonus, it would do the same for adults[2]. Or they could deal with the “urgent and preventable crisis” of having 1 in 6 children living in poverty[3]. People in these discussions aren’t against protecting children. Rather, they’re questioning the ulterior motives behind specific policies. If governments and companies could be trusted to keep their promises and not overreach, no one would be batting an eye at the recent Apple announcement. But historically, the inverse has been true: they’re pretty much guaranteed to try to abuse the system. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... [3]: https://www.childrensdefense.org/policy/resources/soac-2020-child-poverty/ https://www.childrensdefense.org/policy/resources/soac-2020-...

matheusmoreira 5y ago

So what? Children are suffering so everyone must submit to surveillance? No. If abuse happens at all, you've already lost. Detecting pictures isn't gonna undo anything that happened in them.

charbonneau 5y ago
I suggest you read my comment again.