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No, I'm not. Or at least, not as I see it. How would you describe javascript's values, compared to other languages? This is a great chart / explanation of this

No, I'm not. Or at least, not as I see it. How would you describe javascript's values, compared to other languages? This is a great chart / explanation of this kind of thinking from Bryan Cantrill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wZ1pCpJUIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wZ1pCpJUIM

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
No integers. What's the difference between == and ===. Why do I need to learn two ways to declare a class. What module system should I use and why are they all different. Why isn't there much of a standard library. WTF is Grunt, NPM, etc. Just explain 'this' to me again. What is the distinction between null and undefined. What is the difference between for/of and for/in. JavaScript is far from accessible to new users neither is it simple.
- coolgeek 5y ago
  I agree with most of your points. But the distinction between null and undefined is an important one. Its absence is a legitimate complaint about SQL.
- josephg 5y ago
  You're arguing that javascript doesn't succeed at being accessible to new programmers. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that javascript nominally values about being accessible to new programmers. There are way more novice programmers using javascript than (almost?) any other language. This isn't an accident.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    >This isn't an accident. No, it's because it's effectively the only option in the browser. If you are going to write front end code then you will end up writing JavaScript in some form or another. And being popular doesn't necessarily mean it is accessible nor simple. If it had been I doubt we would have seen Python becoming the dominant language in education.
    - josephg 5y ago
      Yep. Python is a dominant language because it also cares a great deal about being easy to learn and accessible to newcomers. In comparison, C++ does not optimize to be accessible to newcomers. C++ cares a lot more about compiled code running efficiently - as is evident from its insanely complex / powerful templating system. Its hard to learn, but its very powerful. Javascript and Python have nothing like that because that wouldn't align with the values of those languages. Python values simple code that runs fast enough over complex code that runs super fast. C++ values code running fast enough, even if the code needs to be more difficult to write to achieve that speed.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago

No integers. What's the difference between == and ===. Why do I need to learn two ways to declare a class. What module system should I use and why are they all different. Why isn't there much of a standard library. WTF is Grunt, NPM, etc. Just explain 'this' to me again. What is the distinction between null and undefined. What is the difference between for/of and for/in. JavaScript is far from accessible to new users neither is it simple.

coolgeek 5y ago
I agree with most of your points. But the distinction between null and undefined is an important one. Its absence is a legitimate complaint about SQL.
josephg 5y ago
You're arguing that javascript doesn't succeed at being accessible to new programmers. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that javascript nominally values about being accessible to new programmers. There are way more novice programmers using javascript than (almost?) any other language. This isn't an accident.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  >This isn't an accident. No, it's because it's effectively the only option in the browser. If you are going to write front end code then you will end up writing JavaScript in some form or another. And being popular doesn't necessarily mean it is accessible nor simple. If it had been I doubt we would have seen Python becoming the dominant language in education.
  - josephg 5y ago
    Yep. Python is a dominant language because it also cares a great deal about being easy to learn and accessible to newcomers. In comparison, C++ does not optimize to be accessible to newcomers. C++ cares a lot more about compiled code running efficiently - as is evident from its insanely complex / powerful templating system. Its hard to learn, but its very powerful. Javascript and Python have nothing like that because that wouldn't align with the values of those languages. Python values simple code that runs fast enough over complex code that runs super fast. C++ values code running fast enough, even if the code needs to be more difficult to write to achieve that speed.