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This is a way over simplistic view. It's not a CIV game where someone decides what "China/Han" should do for all these thousands of years. People's minds change

This is a way over simplistic view. It's not a CIV game where someone decides what "China/Han" should do for all these thousands of years. People's minds change, sometimes the people themselves change, accidents happen. You don't have to find some hidden "truth" that goes back 3000 years to explain what China today does.

tuatoru 5y ago
This same over simplistic view is used to explain why Russia expanded so aggressively to the west and east, and holds its client states so tightly. There is a nice grassy plain from Poland all the way through to the Caucasus (with the Urals as a somewhat permeable barrier). Armies on the move love grassy plains. If your objective is to protect Moscow, you need to control that grassy plain. Edit: ref: Prisoners of Geography: Ten Maps That Tell You Everything You Need To Know About Global Politics by Tim Marshall. "Geography is destiny" can be a useful lens through which to view global politics.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  > There is a nice grassy plain from Poland all the way through to the Caucasus That would be the Pripyat Marshes? That is notoriously inhospitable terrain for armies.
  - kesselvon 5y ago
    Pripyat Marshes are not a big stretch of the North European Plain. You can move massive armies through the northern route along the Baltic coast, or the southern route through Ukraine. They're not really a big obstacle, given the two land invasions that came from the West in the 20th century.
    - denton-scratch 5y ago
      > given the two land invasions Both unsuccessful. But I note your observation that the Pripyat is not as large as my crap geography led me to think.
      - ikerdanzel 5y ago
        If they had read Sun Tzu, they would have won successfully. They mainly lost at weather similarly how China assisted NK to beat Americans. Westerners rarely factor in weather as war elements.
      - kesselvon 5y ago
        Last I checked, the Germans crushed the Russians in WW1 while treating that front as a defensive action while the real war was fought on the Western front. The Polish invasion in 1920 was pretty effective too until it wasn't, same for Napoleon, etc. Point being its a big corridor for large troop movements.
singularity2001 5y ago
Came for a similar sentiment: China is a billion people with a billion wishes. There are many clusters that conspire to achieve many different things, often opposites

tuatoru 5y ago

This same over simplistic view is used to explain why Russia expanded so aggressively to the west and east, and holds its client states so tightly. There is a nice grassy plain from Poland all the way through to the Caucasus (with the Urals as a somewhat permeable barrier). Armies on the move love grassy plains. If your objective is to protect Moscow, you need to control that grassy plain. Edit: ref: Prisoners of Geography: Ten Maps That Tell You Everything You Need To Know About Global Politics by Tim Marshall. "Geography is destiny" can be a useful lens through which to view global politics.

denton-scratch 5y ago
> There is a nice grassy plain from Poland all the way through to the Caucasus That would be the Pripyat Marshes? That is notoriously inhospitable terrain for armies.
- kesselvon 5y ago
  Pripyat Marshes are not a big stretch of the North European Plain. You can move massive armies through the northern route along the Baltic coast, or the southern route through Ukraine. They're not really a big obstacle, given the two land invasions that came from the West in the 20th century.
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    > given the two land invasions Both unsuccessful. But I note your observation that the Pripyat is not as large as my crap geography led me to think.
    - ikerdanzel 5y ago
      If they had read Sun Tzu, they would have won successfully. They mainly lost at weather similarly how China assisted NK to beat Americans. Westerners rarely factor in weather as war elements.
    - kesselvon 5y ago
      Last I checked, the Germans crushed the Russians in WW1 while treating that front as a defensive action while the real war was fought on the Western front. The Polish invasion in 1920 was pretty effective too until it wasn't, same for Napoleon, etc. Point being its a big corridor for large troop movements.

singularity2001 5y ago

Came for a similar sentiment: China is a billion people with a billion wishes. There are many clusters that conspire to achieve many different things, often opposites