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> If you lose all your iDevices _and_ your password at the same time ... I don't know how this is with iPhones (I don't own one), but with Android these events

> If you lose all your iDevices _and_ your password at the same time ... I don't know how this is with iPhones (I don't own one), but with Android these events are almost 100% correlated for many people. That's because you never get prompted for your Google account password on your phone. If you don't use the same Google account on your phone as on your desktop, or don't really use your Google account on the desktop that much to begin with (both apply to me and plenty of others I'm sure) then you might never need to know your password. I've seen people not even realise that they have a Google account, despite using one every day on their phone. Is there anything significantly different with Apple accounts? In case it seems unlikely that someone would not use their phone account on their desktop, remember that plenty of young people today don't even have a non-phone device.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago
You can reset your password with email and phone number. Did it once.
- quietbritishjim 5y ago
  Right, because there isn't the end-to-end encryption scheme that we're currently discussing. You seem to have missed the point of the conversation: Comment 1: The problem with adding end-to-end encryption is that password reset is no longer possible (or it's possible but your data is lost) Comment 2: You can come up with an end-to-end encryption scheme where you can reset your password and keep your data so long as you still have your phone (or when you lose your phone so long as you remember your password) Comment 3 (mine): But if you lose your phone you often don't have your password any more, so that doesn't really help By "Is there anything significantly different with Apple accounts?" I really meant does it often ask you to retype your password or otherwise force you to remember it.
  - st-keller 5y ago
    I have to sign-in with my Apple-ID regularly (once a month) - but only on MacOS-Devices.
xtiansimon 5y ago
> “That's because you never get prompted for your Google account password on your phone. […] then you might never need to know your password.” This is so true. 1Password silently changed their UX on iPhone app 4 years (?) ago and the primary password was not required between app-quit. I had tweaked my password after using it every minute one weekend installing a new system. When I finally needed the master password, the new password was not accepted. Evidently I misremembered the tweak. That experience still burns me. Not forgotten, not forgiven. iPhone requires iCloud for purchases, but I use touch password and bypass this. I never need to use iCloud password.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  iOS purchases require an Apple account. iCloud uses Apple accounts too. But purchases don't require iCloud.
londons_explore 5y ago
WhatsApps 'pin' method is a good one to prevent users forgetting passwords. It periodically asks you for your password. If you get it right, it will wait longer before re-asking. If you get it wrong first time, it'll ask again more frequently (and let you pick a new one IIRC). Works pretty well against forgetful humans.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

You can reset your password with email and phone number. Did it once.

quietbritishjim 5y ago
Right, because there isn't the end-to-end encryption scheme that we're currently discussing. You seem to have missed the point of the conversation: Comment 1: The problem with adding end-to-end encryption is that password reset is no longer possible (or it's possible but your data is lost) Comment 2: You can come up with an end-to-end encryption scheme where you can reset your password and keep your data so long as you still have your phone (or when you lose your phone so long as you remember your password) Comment 3 (mine): But if you lose your phone you often don't have your password any more, so that doesn't really help By "Is there anything significantly different with Apple accounts?" I really meant does it often ask you to retype your password or otherwise force you to remember it.
- st-keller 5y ago
  I have to sign-in with my Apple-ID regularly (once a month) - but only on MacOS-Devices.

xtiansimon 5y ago

> “That's because you never get prompted for your Google account password on your phone. […] then you might never need to know your password.” This is so true. 1Password silently changed their UX on iPhone app 4 years (?) ago and the primary password was not required between app-quit. I had tweaked my password after using it every minute one weekend installing a new system. When I finally needed the master password, the new password was not accepted. Evidently I misremembered the tweak. That experience still burns me. Not forgotten, not forgiven. iPhone requires iCloud for purchases, but I use touch password and bypass this. I never need to use iCloud password.

pseudalopex 5y ago
iOS purchases require an Apple account. iCloud uses Apple accounts too. But purchases don't require iCloud.

londons_explore 5y ago

WhatsApps 'pin' method is a good one to prevent users forgetting passwords. It periodically asks you for your password. If you get it right, it will wait longer before re-asking. If you get it wrong first time, it'll ask again more frequently (and let you pick a new one IIRC). Works pretty well against forgetful humans.