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This is all pure speculation. Everyone in china is using WeChat anyway. China have this capability already. No one is sitting around a table thinking: "What do

This is all pure speculation. Everyone in china is using WeChat anyway. China have this capability already. No one is sitting around a table thinking: "What do we do about Apple Messages", and if they were their solution would be: Block Apple messages. NOT: Ask an American company to implement spying for us and trust that they'll do it accurately... non sensical. As pointed out this feature isn't even being launched in China. But sorry to derail your narrative: China are the bad guys and all bad things are because of china.

vineyardmike 5y ago
> As pointed out this feature isn't even being launched in China. Source?
- onethought 5y ago
  That’s right let’s ask for the source of the extremely believable claim of only launched in US[0]. But no one sourcing the “China is pressuring Apple to do this”. As stated in the article Apple have said it is US only and will be switched on country by country… so surely if this was “BeCAusE ChIna!!!” It’d be switched on there first right? [0] https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/09/apple-csam-faq/?_gl=1*l17q2t*_ga*YW1wLWZQcXhXbVJqRFhBVkdkNFhSX09TNDZvbGQxQllFeERHSkNaZXhXVl9EQ3N4bjJsWXdsdl83NXFVRjR2c3I3RWE https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/09/apple-csam-faq/?_gl=1*l17q2t*....
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    Well, its actually extremely believable that its launching everywhere that gets iOS 15. And your confidence indicated you had a source ;) > so surely if this was “BeCAusE ChIna!!!” It’d be switched on there first right? Is all of your comments on here arguments?
    - onethought 5y ago
      Not at all. But the consistent “China are evil, and that is the reason These pure US companies do bad things” is infuriating. Then when you point out the fallacy of this kind of thinking getting one word: “source” adds to the frustration. Even if it was launched globally it didn’t at all invalidate my point. They would ban the entire App in question, not back door it. See Facebook/Twitter as a well known example.
      - jiocrag 5y ago
        “China are evil, and that is the reason These pure US companies do bad things” Literally no one is saying this. You're getting incredibly sensitive over a regime that just thwarted investigation into a pandemic that has killed more than 1 million people and making irrational arguments to defend it. "hey would ban the entire App in question, not back door it. See Facebook/Twitter as a well known example." Ban *which* app?? The iPhone is not an "app" LOL. It's a hardware device with both software and hardware privacy constraints antithetical to the Chinese government's desire for pervasive surveillance. Apple is gradually shedding its hardcore privacy stance to retain its fastest growing market. It's not difficult to see if you take off your "ANYTHING BAD ABOUT CHINA IS RACIST!!" goggles.
      - vineyardmike 5y ago
        TLDR: China is bad. This change is probably not because of china, but china will certainly use it. > China are evil, and that is the reason These pure US companies do bad things China (the gov) is evil. > is the reason These pure US companies do bad things The companies are not pure. China certain does things to coerce them them to do bad things that wouldn't otherwise do. Some things are very bad. Some things aren't bad inherently, but are very unlike apple. Examples: [1] Hong Kong app removal [2] iCloud CN being run by another company. > They would ban the entire App in question, not back door it China already does this, except it's a phone not an app. They already monitor in-flight data [3], so likely not a huge concern for them, but considering the monitoring they do, why wouldn't this be a nice perk for them. Personally, i doubt that china required apple to do this since they already get what they want. I'm sure they'll love to (ab)use this though. I'm confident that a government somewhere wants this (new UK/EU anti-e2ee laws?). China can't ban the iPhone, apple actually has that much political power. They are a huge poster child of chinese manufacturing power. Every time a senator asks tim cook to move manufacturing stateside and he says that only china is capable, it pumps china up. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/technology/apple-hong-kong-app.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/technology/apple-hong-kon... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 [3] https://citizenlab.ca/2019/07/cant-picture-this-2-an-analysis-of-wechats-realtime-image-filtering-in-chats/ https://citizenlab.ca/2019/07/cant-picture-this-2-an-analysi...
jiocrag 5y ago
This is pure BS. "Everyone in China is using WeChat anyway." Really? Chinese citizens don't use their iPhone cameras to store photos locally? They only use WeChat to take pictures and store them? Gee, you should tell Apple AND Tencent this! It would dramatically shift their product development path. Where did Apple Messages come into play? What does that have to do with locally stored photos? "This feature isn't even being launched in China" -- yup. Apple has definitely never launched a feature first in the US then rolled it out worldwide. "But sorry to derail your narrative: China are the bad guys and all bad things are because of china." Who said that? Seems more like you've got a bias to apologize for the regime than anyone else has a bias to impugn it.
- onethought 5y ago
  My point was the gov can already track everything because they are hooked into WeChat. So yeah… they don’t care what Apple do, cause as soon as it’s on WeChat they can see it. That’s why I mentioned Messages… because that’d be the alternative. Literally the OP said: “it’s China that is causing Apple to do this”… so in answer to your question: the OP. Not apologising for the Chinese government. Do you call Biden administration a regime?

vineyardmike 5y ago

> As pointed out this feature isn't even being launched in China. Source?

onethought 5y ago
That’s right let’s ask for the source of the extremely believable claim of only launched in US[0]. But no one sourcing the “China is pressuring Apple to do this”. As stated in the article Apple have said it is US only and will be switched on country by country… so surely if this was “BeCAusE ChIna!!!” It’d be switched on there first right? [0] https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/09/apple-csam-faq/?_gl=1*l17q2t*_ga*YW1wLWZQcXhXbVJqRFhBVkdkNFhSX09TNDZvbGQxQllFeERHSkNaZXhXVl9EQ3N4bjJsWXdsdl83NXFVRjR2c3I3RWE https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/09/apple-csam-faq/?_gl=1*l17q2t*....
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  Well, its actually extremely believable that its launching everywhere that gets iOS 15. And your confidence indicated you had a source ;) > so surely if this was “BeCAusE ChIna!!!” It’d be switched on there first right? Is all of your comments on here arguments?
  - onethought 5y ago
    Not at all. But the consistent “China are evil, and that is the reason These pure US companies do bad things” is infuriating. Then when you point out the fallacy of this kind of thinking getting one word: “source” adds to the frustration. Even if it was launched globally it didn’t at all invalidate my point. They would ban the entire App in question, not back door it. See Facebook/Twitter as a well known example.
    - jiocrag 5y ago
      “China are evil, and that is the reason These pure US companies do bad things” Literally no one is saying this. You're getting incredibly sensitive over a regime that just thwarted investigation into a pandemic that has killed more than 1 million people and making irrational arguments to defend it. "hey would ban the entire App in question, not back door it. See Facebook/Twitter as a well known example." Ban *which* app?? The iPhone is not an "app" LOL. It's a hardware device with both software and hardware privacy constraints antithetical to the Chinese government's desire for pervasive surveillance. Apple is gradually shedding its hardcore privacy stance to retain its fastest growing market. It's not difficult to see if you take off your "ANYTHING BAD ABOUT CHINA IS RACIST!!" goggles.
    - vineyardmike 5y ago
      TLDR: China is bad. This change is probably not because of china, but china will certainly use it. > China are evil, and that is the reason These pure US companies do bad things China (the gov) is evil. > is the reason These pure US companies do bad things The companies are not pure. China certain does things to coerce them them to do bad things that wouldn't otherwise do. Some things are very bad. Some things aren't bad inherently, but are very unlike apple. Examples: [1] Hong Kong app removal [2] iCloud CN being run by another company. > They would ban the entire App in question, not back door it China already does this, except it's a phone not an app. They already monitor in-flight data [3], so likely not a huge concern for them, but considering the monitoring they do, why wouldn't this be a nice perk for them. Personally, i doubt that china required apple to do this since they already get what they want. I'm sure they'll love to (ab)use this though. I'm confident that a government somewhere wants this (new UK/EU anti-e2ee laws?). China can't ban the iPhone, apple actually has that much political power. They are a huge poster child of chinese manufacturing power. Every time a senator asks tim cook to move manufacturing stateside and he says that only china is capable, it pumps china up. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/technology/apple-hong-kong-app.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/technology/apple-hong-kon... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 [3] https://citizenlab.ca/2019/07/cant-picture-this-2-an-analysis-of-wechats-realtime-image-filtering-in-chats/ https://citizenlab.ca/2019/07/cant-picture-this-2-an-analysi...

jiocrag 5y ago

This is pure BS. "Everyone in China is using WeChat anyway." Really? Chinese citizens don't use their iPhone cameras to store photos locally? They only use WeChat to take pictures and store them? Gee, you should tell Apple AND Tencent this! It would dramatically shift their product development path. Where did Apple Messages come into play? What does that have to do with locally stored photos? "This feature isn't even being launched in China" -- yup. Apple has definitely never launched a feature first in the US then rolled it out worldwide. "But sorry to derail your narrative: China are the bad guys and all bad things are because of china." Who said that? Seems more like you've got a bias to apologize for the regime than anyone else has a bias to impugn it.

onethought 5y ago
My point was the gov can already track everything because they are hooked into WeChat. So yeah… they don’t care what Apple do, cause as soon as it’s on WeChat they can see it. That’s why I mentioned Messages… because that’d be the alternative. Literally the OP said: “it’s China that is causing Apple to do this”… so in answer to your question: the OP. Not apologising for the Chinese government. Do you call Biden administration a regime?