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> Apple built a mechanism to pull a photo from your phone, without telling you it did so No, they did not. This feature is only enabled for photos that are syn

> Apple built a mechanism to pull a photo from your phone, without telling you it did so No, they did not. This feature is only enabled for photos that are synced to iCloud. If this applies to you, it is because you already assented to having your photos stored by Apple. The FAQ covers this: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...

gambiting 5y ago
Again, I don't think that's honest at all. Normally, photos are stores on the iCloud, fully encrypted, right? I always assumed that Apple had keys where they could decrypt your iCloud when complying with a legal investigation, where an actual warrant is presented. This bypasses that privacy protection entirely - there is now a way for apple to pull your private photo out of your phone(yes, only if you were going to upload to icloud, yes), without needed an actual court order - it's matched against an unknown database, using an unknown algorithm, and uploaded for "inspection" WITHOUT TELLING YOU. So Apple just decides to break your own encryption, on your own device, uploading your data in secret for verification, because they suspect the material you have is illegal. Like, again, this is bad for privacy, not good in any possible way. I just don't think this is at all compatible with the pro-privacy and pro-encryption stance they are taking, that's why I'm calling it dishonest.
- otterley 5y ago
  Photos are only stored on iCloud with your assent. You can disable iCloud synchronization of your photo library with a flick of a switch. This preserves maximum privacy. I disagree that Apple is being dishonest. The FAQ I linked to is clear and forthcoming, and explains exactly what is happening. It is true that Apple is doing something they hadn't done before and that few of us had expected, and they're no longer being absolutists about privacy to the same extent they were before, but that's not identical to being "dishonest." Dishonesty, in my view, refers to intentional factual incorrectness (1 == 2), not a disagreement about characterizations. Finally, they're not "uploading" your photos. If this applies to you, then your photos were already uploaded to iCloud because you said they could. And they're not "breaking your encryption," they are operating in a decrypted context because you gave them your keys (albeit implicitly). Further, they're not even uploading your photo from your phone (which, again, you've already told them to do if you're using iCloud) for the purpose of analysis; they're reporting a fingerprint. Please read the FAQ in full - it's very clear. > not good in any possible way Many disagree, and would say that reporting child sexual abuse is, in fact, good.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    >>Further, they're not even uploading your photo from your phone (which, again, you've already told them to do if you're using iCloud) for the purpose of analysis; they're reporting a fingerprint Yes, followed by the actual photo for verification by a human, and if it's indeed a reportable picture it's then sent to authorities. It's very clear from their FAQ that's how it works. That's what I mean by apple "breaking" encryption - the photo is encrypted on the phone, and encrypted on the cloud - except that if their algorithm says it matches(or is just similar to) some hash somewhere, the actual photo will be sent without encryption to them for verification. That's the part I have an issue with. They are not saying to the authorities "hey we found something matching a known hash on this guy's device, do with it what you will"(in which case I'd expect the police to arrive with a search warrant), they do actually analyze, send through to themselves, verify and send to authorities the actual pictures from your phone. The fact that a permission to store the pictures in iCloud was given before is again problematic, because apple repeatedly says that the iCloud contents are encrypted and they can't see them without a warrant - except in this case here, they can and they will. >>Many disagree, and would say that reporting child sexual abuse is, in fact, good. Beyond a doubt, yes, obviously. But the fight against child abuse shouldn't be at all costs, and every technological solution where our privacy is violated should be met with suspicion first. Not to mention the entire discussion about the dangers of this system existing in the first place, Apple saying they will refuse state request to add content detection that isn't related to child abuse doesn't really hold much water, sorry - if doing so is the condition to continue operating in a market large enough, they will absolutely do it and I have zero doubts they would.

gambiting 5y ago

Again, I don't think that's honest at all. Normally, photos are stores on the iCloud, fully encrypted, right? I always assumed that Apple had keys where they could decrypt your iCloud when complying with a legal investigation, where an actual warrant is presented. This bypasses that privacy protection entirely - there is now a way for apple to pull your private photo out of your phone(yes, only if you were going to upload to icloud, yes), without needed an actual court order - it's matched against an unknown database, using an unknown algorithm, and uploaded for "inspection" WITHOUT TELLING YOU. So Apple just decides to break your own encryption, on your own device, uploading your data in secret for verification, because they suspect the material you have is illegal. Like, again, this is bad for privacy, not good in any possible way. I just don't think this is at all compatible with the pro-privacy and pro-encryption stance they are taking, that's why I'm calling it dishonest.

otterley 5y ago
Photos are only stored on iCloud with your assent. You can disable iCloud synchronization of your photo library with a flick of a switch. This preserves maximum privacy. I disagree that Apple is being dishonest. The FAQ I linked to is clear and forthcoming, and explains exactly what is happening. It is true that Apple is doing something they hadn't done before and that few of us had expected, and they're no longer being absolutists about privacy to the same extent they were before, but that's not identical to being "dishonest." Dishonesty, in my view, refers to intentional factual incorrectness (1 == 2), not a disagreement about characterizations. Finally, they're not "uploading" your photos. If this applies to you, then your photos were already uploaded to iCloud because you said they could. And they're not "breaking your encryption," they are operating in a decrypted context because you gave them your keys (albeit implicitly). Further, they're not even uploading your photo from your phone (which, again, you've already told them to do if you're using iCloud) for the purpose of analysis; they're reporting a fingerprint. Please read the FAQ in full - it's very clear. > not good in any possible way Many disagree, and would say that reporting child sexual abuse is, in fact, good.
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>Further, they're not even uploading your photo from your phone (which, again, you've already told them to do if you're using iCloud) for the purpose of analysis; they're reporting a fingerprint Yes, followed by the actual photo for verification by a human, and if it's indeed a reportable picture it's then sent to authorities. It's very clear from their FAQ that's how it works. That's what I mean by apple "breaking" encryption - the photo is encrypted on the phone, and encrypted on the cloud - except that if their algorithm says it matches(or is just similar to) some hash somewhere, the actual photo will be sent without encryption to them for verification. That's the part I have an issue with. They are not saying to the authorities "hey we found something matching a known hash on this guy's device, do with it what you will"(in which case I'd expect the police to arrive with a search warrant), they do actually analyze, send through to themselves, verify and send to authorities the actual pictures from your phone. The fact that a permission to store the pictures in iCloud was given before is again problematic, because apple repeatedly says that the iCloud contents are encrypted and they can't see them without a warrant - except in this case here, they can and they will. >>Many disagree, and would say that reporting child sexual abuse is, in fact, good. Beyond a doubt, yes, obviously. But the fight against child abuse shouldn't be at all costs, and every technological solution where our privacy is violated should be met with suspicion first. Not to mention the entire discussion about the dangers of this system existing in the first place, Apple saying they will refuse state request to add content detection that isn't related to child abuse doesn't really hold much water, sorry - if doing so is the condition to continue operating in a market large enough, they will absolutely do it and I have zero doubts they would.