5 ms·

I like the technique of testing if it was carnivorous. For the lazy people, they put a nitrogen isotope inside fruitflies and then tested the plant later to see

I like the technique of testing if it was carnivorous. For the lazy people, they put a nitrogen isotope inside fruitflies and then tested the plant later to see if it was absorbing the nitrogen, and it was.

tantalor 5y ago
This sounds like an incomplete test. What was the control? Did they try sticking fruit flies to the stems of known non-carnivore plant?
- maxerickson 5y ago
  What's the test for a "known non-carnivore plant"? If it absorbs half it's nitrogen from insects that get stuck to the stem…
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    Then it could be a (weird) symbiote, or pick stuff up on contact
- neurostimulant 5y ago
  Well, terrestrial plants don't normally absorb nutrients from flower stalks, right?
  - phito 5y ago
    They definitely do absorb nutrients from leaves (check out foliar feeding), so it's not far stretched to imagine that they also could do the same from flower stalks
madaxe_again 5y ago
By this definition (nutrient uptake from an animal the plant has killed), brambles should be counted as carnivorous. Their spines all point towards the base of the plant, where, in a mature specimen, there’s usually a hollow without thorns. Thing is, if you’re a furry or woolly animal, like a sheep, and you get caught in the thorns, your struggles bring you into the centre of the plant, where you’re thoroughly trapped, and you die of exhaustion. Then you decompose, and the bramble gets fed. I’ve seen this happen to sheep, and here, while clearing huge swathes of giant brambles, it’s not uncommon to find a skull or a few bits of bone around the bottom of a plant.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  Whoa. That's a really cool thought; I had never considered that.
- samatman 5y ago
  There is a case to be made that this should count as predation. The plant in the article is less ambiguous: they detected a digestive enzyme in the sticky stalks which is common to other carnivorous plants, and means the plant digests the insects directly. A bramble consumes unlucky mammals with the help of mycorrhisae in the soil, rather doing so directly. Is this more like the bacteria which help ruminants digest cellulose (no one would say that cows don't eat grass!) or is it more like saying that vegans are carnivores because organic fertilizers have blood and fish meal in them?

tantalor 5y ago

This sounds like an incomplete test. What was the control? Did they try sticking fruit flies to the stems of known non-carnivore plant?

maxerickson 5y ago
What's the test for a "known non-carnivore plant"? If it absorbs half it's nitrogen from insects that get stuck to the stem…
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  Then it could be a (weird) symbiote, or pick stuff up on contact
neurostimulant 5y ago
Well, terrestrial plants don't normally absorb nutrients from flower stalks, right?
- phito 5y ago
  They definitely do absorb nutrients from leaves (check out foliar feeding), so it's not far stretched to imagine that they also could do the same from flower stalks

madaxe_again 5y ago

By this definition (nutrient uptake from an animal the plant has killed), brambles should be counted as carnivorous. Their spines all point towards the base of the plant, where, in a mature specimen, there’s usually a hollow without thorns. Thing is, if you’re a furry or woolly animal, like a sheep, and you get caught in the thorns, your struggles bring you into the centre of the plant, where you’re thoroughly trapped, and you die of exhaustion. Then you decompose, and the bramble gets fed. I’ve seen this happen to sheep, and here, while clearing huge swathes of giant brambles, it’s not uncommon to find a skull or a few bits of bone around the bottom of a plant.

mandmandam 5y ago
Whoa. That's a really cool thought; I had never considered that.
samatman 5y ago
There is a case to be made that this should count as predation. The plant in the article is less ambiguous: they detected a digestive enzyme in the sticky stalks which is common to other carnivorous plants, and means the plant digests the insects directly. A bramble consumes unlucky mammals with the help of mycorrhisae in the soil, rather doing so directly. Is this more like the bacteria which help ruminants digest cellulose (no one would say that cows don't eat grass!) or is it more like saying that vegans are carnivores because organic fertilizers have blood and fish meal in them?