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> No. I refuse. ... > I'm open to data. I'm open to discussion. These statements sure seem to be in conflict, so I'm genuinely curious: Are you, though? Op

> No. I refuse. ... > I'm open to data. I'm open to discussion. These statements sure seem to be in conflict, so I'm genuinely curious: Are you, though? Open to discussion? You seem to have made up your mind. You've decided you won't believe "government leaders". You won't believe "policy makers". I'm going go ahead and guess, based on the tone of your comment, that you are similarly distrusting of information from the medical community. That would seem to rule out any and all potential sources of data that might demonstrate "the efficacy of the masks that are widely sold, used, and accepted" (e.g. https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 - "The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained."). So... are you really open to data and discussion? Or are you just saying that because it seems like the right thing to say? And no, I'm not trying to be a snide smart-ass. I'm trying to reveal what you're actually thinking and feeling. Because I'll be honest, I don't think what you've written here reflects your actual, deep-down feelings on the topic.

trentnix 5y ago
I'm going go ahead and guess, based on the tone of your comment, that you are similarly distrusting of information from the medical community. Tone? Your Hacker News clearly works in ways mine does not. I socialize with a number of physicians, surgeons, and medical professionals. I seek medical help and advice when I'm sick. I seek medical help and advice when my kids are sick. I pursued a vaccine expressly because those same medical professionals were vaccinated themselves. But I also don't believe a physician has some magical ability to discern truth that other intelligent people cannot. I also trust the science of the efficacy of masks people are wearing. I trust the science that examines how the way they wear their masks sabotages any utility they might provide. I trust the science that suggests there are negative psychological and sociological consequences to an entire society not able to see the faces of their peers. I trust the science that suggests, despite breakthrough cases, the vaccines don't have unmanageable side effects and work as intended. I trust the data that has revealed of 100 "breakthrough" Covid deaths in Massachusetts, the median age of those who died is 82.5 and ~75% had underlying issues. I trust the data that has revealed of the ~9000 who have died of Covid here in Texas since February, only 43 were vaccinated. I trust that masks and distancing have clearly had positive side effects to limit the spread of other illnesses, such as the flu. My children have all had RSV since society mostly opened back up but not before (talk to a pediatrician - it's particularly nasty this year and is spreading in the summer months unlike it has in memory). But I also trust my eyes that have seen states and communities with draconian lockdowns faring no better (or worse!) than states and communities that are largely open. Here in my community some schools required everyone to mask. Others, not at all. And neither fared measurably better or worse than the other. And given all that (and more), I've come to the conclusion that it is unlikely that masks make much of a difference. And above all else, I trust that you know better how to keep yourself and your family safe than I do. And vice-versa. Because I'll be honest, I don't think what you've written here reflects your actual, deep-down feelings on the topic. Careful everyone! We've got a mind reader, here! Seriously though, I know it's tough to resist the arrogant urge to compartmentalize all the wrongthinkers into stereotypes. But resist anyway, because it makes you seem like a condescending, dishonest, disingenuous investigator who is just building a strawman. Or are you just saying that because it seems like the right thing to say? Right thing to say? I don't even know what that means. I said what I genuinely believe. I've even attached my name to it. I've changed my mind on many subjects when presented evidence to the contrary - it's a useful skill when you solve problems for a living.

trentnix 5y ago

I'm going go ahead and guess, based on the tone of your comment, that you are similarly distrusting of information from the medical community. Tone? Your Hacker News clearly works in ways mine does not. I socialize with a number of physicians, surgeons, and medical professionals. I seek medical help and advice when I'm sick. I seek medical help and advice when my kids are sick. I pursued a vaccine expressly because those same medical professionals were vaccinated themselves. But I also don't believe a physician has some magical ability to discern truth that other intelligent people cannot. I also trust the science of the efficacy of masks people are wearing. I trust the science that examines how the way they wear their masks sabotages any utility they might provide. I trust the science that suggests there are negative psychological and sociological consequences to an entire society not able to see the faces of their peers. I trust the science that suggests, despite breakthrough cases, the vaccines don't have unmanageable side effects and work as intended. I trust the data that has revealed of 100 "breakthrough" Covid deaths in Massachusetts, the median age of those who died is 82.5 and ~75% had underlying issues. I trust the data that has revealed of the ~9000 who have died of Covid here in Texas since February, only 43 were vaccinated. I trust that masks and distancing have clearly had positive side effects to limit the spread of other illnesses, such as the flu. My children have all had RSV since society mostly opened back up but not before (talk to a pediatrician - it's particularly nasty this year and is spreading in the summer months unlike it has in memory). But I also trust my eyes that have seen states and communities with draconian lockdowns faring no better (or worse!) than states and communities that are largely open. Here in my community some schools required everyone to mask. Others, not at all. And neither fared measurably better or worse than the other. And given all that (and more), I've come to the conclusion that it is unlikely that masks make much of a difference. And above all else, I trust that you know better how to keep yourself and your family safe than I do. And vice-versa. Because I'll be honest, I don't think what you've written here reflects your actual, deep-down feelings on the topic. Careful everyone! We've got a mind reader, here! Seriously though, I know it's tough to resist the arrogant urge to compartmentalize all the wrongthinkers into stereotypes. But resist anyway, because it makes you seem like a condescending, dishonest, disingenuous investigator who is just building a strawman. Or are you just saying that because it seems like the right thing to say? Right thing to say? I don't even know what that means. I said what I genuinely believe. I've even attached my name to it. I've changed my mind on many subjects when presented evidence to the contrary - it's a useful skill when you solve problems for a living.