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>> If there were coercion it would be a shocking conspiracy. This comment is as if the 2001-2010 decade never happened. Secret wiretaps. Secret Evidence. Overs

by usaman 5y ago

>> If there were coercion it would be a shocking conspiracy. This comment is as if the 2001-2010 decade never happened. Secret wiretaps. Secret Evidence. Overseas torture facilities. Imprisonment without charges. What makes you think that checks and balances would miraculously appear after having disappeared for over a decade. NOTE: this is a USA-centric viewpoint

nullc 5y ago
I would not argue that the conspiracy is impossible, but if it exists then it makes Apple's actions less excusable instead of more excusable. If the conspiracy exists Apple is an active participant in secretly and illegally undermining the constitutional rights of well over a hundred million Americans. If the conspiracy does not exist, then they're simply lawfully invading people's privacy in order to improve their profits.
strken 5y ago
Those are examples of shocking conspiracies that got uncovered. Illegal wiretapping and Guantanamo Bay ended up in the news and we're still talking about them now.
- bigfudge 5y ago
  But nobody apologies for them or went to prison. There is little to believe the don’t continue.
  - bigiain 5y ago
    Snowden did. (Well, effectively did. He'd totally go to prison if he stepped foot in a country that'd extradite him to the US.) But you're right, none of the people who broke all the laws Snowden showed us were getting broken has suffered any consequences.
bigiain 5y ago
> NOTE: this is a USA-centric viewpoint Those are USA-centric examples. I'm sure the viewpoint is just as valid across five eyes and even worse in places like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, China et al. I'm from Australia, allegedly a 1st world democracy - and secret wiretaps, secret evidence (and even secret trials!), overseas torture facilities, imprisonment without charges - are all public policy, covered my the media, and enshrined in laws passes by both of the two-party political system.
- torified 5y ago
  >Australia Don't forget raiding journalists homes and public broadcasters (using illegal warrants!) for reporting on proposed secret spying and hacking laws. Nice "democracy".
- XorNot 5y ago
  "Covered by the media" is a stretch: Murdoch has been hard at work ignoring all of it.
- thewileyone 5y ago
  I watched "Secret City" and was aghast at the secret trials, evidence, etc. Is all that really happening today in Australia?

by usaman 5y ago

nullc 5y ago

I would not argue that the conspiracy is impossible, but if it exists then it makes Apple's actions less excusable instead of more excusable. If the conspiracy exists Apple is an active participant in secretly and illegally undermining the constitutional rights of well over a hundred million Americans. If the conspiracy does not exist, then they're simply lawfully invading people's privacy in order to improve their profits.

strken 5y ago

Those are examples of shocking conspiracies that got uncovered. Illegal wiretapping and Guantanamo Bay ended up in the news and we're still talking about them now.

bigfudge 5y ago
But nobody apologies for them or went to prison. There is little to believe the don’t continue.
- bigiain 5y ago
  Snowden did. (Well, effectively did. He'd totally go to prison if he stepped foot in a country that'd extradite him to the US.) But you're right, none of the people who broke all the laws Snowden showed us were getting broken has suffered any consequences.

bigiain 5y ago

> NOTE: this is a USA-centric viewpoint Those are USA-centric examples. I'm sure the viewpoint is just as valid across five eyes and even worse in places like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, China et al. I'm from Australia, allegedly a 1st world democracy - and secret wiretaps, secret evidence (and even secret trials!), overseas torture facilities, imprisonment without charges - are all public policy, covered my the media, and enshrined in laws passes by both of the two-party political system.

torified 5y ago
>Australia Don't forget raiding journalists homes and public broadcasters (using illegal warrants!) for reporting on proposed secret spying and hacking laws. Nice "democracy".
XorNot 5y ago
"Covered by the media" is a stretch: Murdoch has been hard at work ignoring all of it.
thewileyone 5y ago
I watched "Secret City" and was aghast at the secret trials, evidence, etc. Is all that really happening today in Australia?