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> Any sailor worth their salt can tell you that a boat can travel faster than the wind by cutting zigzag patterns; that's called tacking. This is a pedantic po

> Any sailor worth their salt can tell you that a boat can travel faster than the wind by cutting zigzag patterns; that's called tacking. This is a pedantic point, but when you're cutting zigzag patterns downwind it's called jibing, not tacking. I guess there are high-performance boats that can go faster than the wind upwind, and that are so fast that they can perform downwind tacking (since apparent wind stays ahead of the mast), but this is the exception, not the rule.

jcims 5y ago
Side note, this is my favorite mode of exhibiting pedantry. Let the conversation flow while still correcting terminology. Thanks for the info.
sopooneo 5y ago
But what about once you are going downwind faster than the wind, and thus experience an apparent headwind? I'm not a sailor, but I thought I'd seen people using the term "tacking downwind" to describe that.
- haberman 5y ago
  You will experience an apparent headwind when sailing on a broad reach faster than the wind, yes. But the jibe involves turning downwind (thus losing lift), as well as bringing the sails across (which will temporarily de-power them). It's been a while since I've been sailing, but I don't think most boats can maintain an apparent headwind through the entire maneuver, even if they are capable of faster-than-wind speed. Some can, which is why I mentioned downwind tacking for high-performance boats, but I think it takes a pretty fast boat to manage it.
  - morei 5y ago
    The F50 sailing class used in SailGP can remain foiling during jibes in winds as light as 8 knots. That is, the boat always sees an apparent headwind during the entire downwind run.
- morei 5y ago
  Amusingly, it's still referred to as jibing[1], even though the apparent wind remains a headwind. This is important because sailing has right-of-way rules that are written in terms of the true wind, not the apparent wind. [1] or gybing if you're using British spelling.
jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
State of the art in crazy expensive racing yachts (think America's Cup) is limited by cavitation on the foils to a bit over 50 knots. Ice boats are setting records over 120 knots. If someone figures out a magic foil, that gap may close, which is a thought that blows my mind.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  Wow I had no idea, thank you. I was in a relative's ice boat once. I was pretty wonderfully terrifying -- awesome in all senses. To do that on water would be quite something!
nabilhat 5y ago
Sport kites can also be great as a sort of demonstration of what a sail's crosswind potential could look like if it didn't have to lug around a vehicle, technically both downwind and upwind since they're essentially tracking a spherical concave shape centered directly downwind of the pilot. Speedkites in particular push the sail speed vs wind speed ratio to ridiculous limits. For scale, this kite is 190cm across. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_quR4xUSrZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_quR4xUSrZY

jcims 5y ago

Side note, this is my favorite mode of exhibiting pedantry. Let the conversation flow while still correcting terminology. Thanks for the info.

sopooneo 5y ago

But what about once you are going downwind faster than the wind, and thus experience an apparent headwind? I'm not a sailor, but I thought I'd seen people using the term "tacking downwind" to describe that.

haberman 5y ago
You will experience an apparent headwind when sailing on a broad reach faster than the wind, yes. But the jibe involves turning downwind (thus losing lift), as well as bringing the sails across (which will temporarily de-power them). It's been a while since I've been sailing, but I don't think most boats can maintain an apparent headwind through the entire maneuver, even if they are capable of faster-than-wind speed. Some can, which is why I mentioned downwind tacking for high-performance boats, but I think it takes a pretty fast boat to manage it.
- morei 5y ago
  The F50 sailing class used in SailGP can remain foiling during jibes in winds as light as 8 knots. That is, the boat always sees an apparent headwind during the entire downwind run.
morei 5y ago
Amusingly, it's still referred to as jibing[1], even though the apparent wind remains a headwind. This is important because sailing has right-of-way rules that are written in terms of the true wind, not the apparent wind. [1] or gybing if you're using British spelling.

jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago

State of the art in crazy expensive racing yachts (think America's Cup) is limited by cavitation on the foils to a bit over 50 knots. Ice boats are setting records over 120 knots. If someone figures out a magic foil, that gap may close, which is a thought that blows my mind.

Ericson2314 5y ago
Wow I had no idea, thank you. I was in a relative's ice boat once. I was pretty wonderfully terrifying -- awesome in all senses. To do that on water would be quite something!

nabilhat 5y ago

Sport kites can also be great as a sort of demonstration of what a sail's crosswind potential could look like if it didn't have to lug around a vehicle, technically both downwind and upwind since they're essentially tracking a spherical concave shape centered directly downwind of the pilot. Speedkites in particular push the sail speed vs wind speed ratio to ridiculous limits. For scale, this kite is 190cm across. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_quR4xUSrZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_quR4xUSrZY