6 ms·

You've got YC one-itis. There are a zillion other places to raise money. Any one funding source says no 98% of the time, it has nothing to do with you. -a 55 y

You've got YC one-itis. There are a zillion other places to raise money. Any one funding source says no 98% of the time, it has nothing to do with you. -a 55 year old founder who just raised a $20M Series A

newbamboo 5y ago
I think that might be the point op was making. “Done with YC” == “Done thinking YC is the only way.” I’m not sure though.
- over50 5y ago
  That's it, kind of. I would say "Done thinking YC is the right fit for me" could be more accurate. Of course, now they've flagged the thread, so not sure if any of this discussion matters. Instead of cancelling the discussion, it should be actively promoted. I am not accusing of YC doing anything explicitly. I think they make the right decisions when it comes to what you need in a young team in order to succeed. An example of this is the multiple founder bias. Right on point. Young people are just not equipped for the brutality entrepreneurship can deliver. I also think that some of their process results in unintentional age bias. Asking for age is one example. Older founders might not need or want co-founders. And relocation is something might be impossible as well. As an example, in my case, I have full industrial-class manufacturing capabilities where I live. Moving to YC for three months, quite literally, means I would be far less efficient and likely get very little done. Or, I would have to abandon work on hardware and focus solely on software.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    They didn't cancel the discussion; users did. I didn't flag this thread, but thought about it. It's got nothing to do with the validity of your argument. I'm in my 40s, am alert to ageism, and tend to think it's a real thing. But threads like this, where there's barely even circumstantial evidence in the story as presented (the whole story might be much clearer!) tend to be total shitshows as threads. I think the bias towards founder teams is especially problematic. If I was trying to marshal a case that YC pattern-matches on 25-year-old top-school grads, I'd leave the solo-founder thing out. They're right about solo founders, and they're right along multiple dimensions. We can have a healthy debate about that, but all it'll do is muddy the waters about the ageism thing. It sounds to me, given all the circumstances you've rattled off, the YC just isn't a fit for what you want to do. It wasn't at all a fit for my last couple businesses, either, and they did (/are doing) great.
    - smithmayowa 5y ago
      Unrelated and I expect to be downvoted but you were right https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1428764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1428764 The U.S did leave Afghanistan and now the Taliban's are about taking over, I'm always stunned when I see decade old predictions that were accurate.
  - dang 5y ago
    > now they've flagged the thread Just to be clear, users flagged it, not moderators. When you see [flagged] on a submission, it nearly always means that users flagged it (this is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html).
    - over50 5y ago
      > Just to be clear, users flagged it, not moderators. I understand this. In this case "they" did not mean YC. Maybe I should have clarified.
the-dude 5y ago
You seem to have raised money before almost 20 years ago. That sure must help.
- blagie 5y ago
  That's precisely why being an older person helps. You have experience under your belt. If you're 55 and have never done anything, that's a strong signal to not invest in you, since you're unlikely to do something now. 20-year-olds are risks. 55-year-old have track records.
  - the-dude 5y ago
    Experience with fundraising under your belt, yes. That was my point.
  - caddemon 5y ago
    A 55 year old who is new to entrepreneurship should be viewed as analogous to a 20 year old, not worse. Track record should be evaluated without reference to age, there's nothing wrong with pivoting in your career. I thought maybe OP was reading into things too much (and maybe he is with respect to YC), but you're proving his point.
    - brudgers 5y ago
      A fifty five year old has more track record upon which to form a judgement. A twenty year old who can't find cofounders is more likely to be a positive outlier than a fifty five year old who can't. There are another thirty-five years of adult people skills there. If a person knows a cofounder would help but eschews finding one, it's not a strong positive signal.
      - caddemon 5y ago
        I'm not sure that's true, a 20 year old is among their peers when trying to find a cofounder. I would expect it to be harder for a 55 year old to find a cofounder. I understand judging on not having a cofounder period, but age shouldn't come into it directly. It's true an older person has more past, but if they were in a different line of work before there is only so much info that can be gained from it. It shouldn't be treated as a negative, at least not any more so than a fresh out of college kid is viewed. At the end of the day it is quite literally age discrimination when you start making different judgements about the same measures (like presence of cofounder for example) just because of someone's age. To me that is clearly wrong. I don't have a problem with judging on factors that happen to relate to age (again like presence of cofounder), but however a particular person scores on that metric has to be taken at face value, not with reference to age.
sillysaurusx 5y ago
I had a convo with an angel who was asking me (for some reason) for advice on breaking into the YC investor network. The most surprising thing is that angels appear to be semi-excluded now. I don’t have anything more than two datapoints: 1. That angel who reached out to me 2. The fact that the YC investor demo day application explicitly excludes angels. Of course, #2 is misleading. You can certainly submit an app as an angel. You just can’t fill out >5 of the fields, because they begin with “If you represent an investment firm…” The takeaway for me was, ironically, there may be an opportunity for angels to band together and take some risks. YC is all about risk analysis. If they don’t want to risk it on a 58yo solo founder with satellites in orbit, perhaps others will. But you’re right about YC one-itis. Right now it’s hard to see any alternatives. They do exist, though. EDIT: By the way, a word to OP: don’t take rejection so hard. (http://www.paulgraham.com/judgement.html http://www.paulgraham.com/judgement.html helps with this.) One of the key features of YC is that they invest in people who look like a good bet. As I was reading though your post, I couldn’t help but think that pivoting a few times may not be a good bet. It’s true that startups do pivot, but not having a clear idea of who your customers are is also a warning sign. As someone else said, put some contact info in your profile. You’ll get dozens of people reaching out to you from this thread if you hurry. Of course, you could be right about the discrimination aspect, which is different. In that case, rejection would be personal.
- 411111111111111 5y ago
  > The most surprising thing is that angels appear to be semi-excluded now. That might be a consequence from that Dreamworld debacle... Maybe... Hopefully... Having an obvious scam legitimizing themselves through YCombinator was at the very least very disconcerting. (Just a random person's opinion) https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/dreamworld https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/dreamworld
DiabloD3 5y ago
Congrats.
blagie 5y ago
As an older founder, it's easier to raise $20M Series A than as a younger founder. I'm pretty confident I have a much better chance of raising money than I did a decade or two ago. To be specific, I think I would have had almost no chance way back when, and I think I'd probably have better-than-even-odds today, if I tried (which I wouldn't; I'm committed to what I'm doing). However, that doesn't mean places don't age-discriminate. Truth of the matter is, I'd enjoy doing Y-Combinator at some point in my life, but I don't think it will every be possible: - I don't think they'd take someone like me - If they did, once you have kids and mortgage, you can't relocate - If you do, once you have kids, you can't do the Y-Combinator lifestyle of 80 hour work weeks, sprints, and ramen - The offer would be exploitative, for people with more senior backgrounds. Perhaps I can get by this, but 7% is a lot to give up for advising. Y-Combinator: "We think that $125k is currently the right amount for founders to be able to run their company and pay expenses for around 5-6 months, and sometimes even longer" (https://www.ycombinator.com/deal/ https://www.ycombinator.com/deal/) That's great for a grad student, but I think a lot of people read this to mean "no older people." I mean, I might be able to self-finance or raise capital, but founding team for $125k for 6+ months? That's delusional if you're out-of-school and have expenses.
- the-dude 5y ago
  Hasn't COVID moved the whole relocation thing out of the way?
- tptacek 5y ago
  The move to SFBA is a real issue, and an obstacle for anyone with family commitments. I'm not sure what they can realistically do about it, since part of the premise of the program is that you're benefiting from being physically proximate to them. The rest of this, I think you're wrong about. I'm at a YC company right now (Fly.io) --- technically, I'm a YC founder at Fly.io --- and I've spent the last several years working directly with YC companies, and I haven't perceived any distinctive "80 hour work week, subsist on ramen" lifestyle out of those companies. I know why people believe this about YC companies, and I think it's a convenient fiction YC itself sort of deliberately doesn't knock back, but I don't think there's much truth to it. I used to think 7% was ludicrous for what YC was bringing to the table, but YC brings a lot more to the table now than it did when I thought that. There are cynical ways to look at the YC benefit and there are generous ways to look at it, but either way: if you're going to go on to raise more money, you're getting something significantly more than $125k for the share you give up. I'd be more concerned about the "$125k for a founding team is ludicrous" thing but for the fact that for me, and for most of the people I talk to about this stuff, the alternative to YC is bootstrapping and consulting. If you're looking at the money YC gives you for the session as the entire financial permission structure for your company, you weren't going to succeed no matter who invested in your company.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
over50 5y ago
> You've got YC one-itis. There are a zillion other places to raise money. Any one funding source says no 98% of the time, it has nothing to do with you. I don't think you read my post. Or, if you did, you didn't understand it. What you are saying has nothing to do with what I said, what I think of YC or anything in my post. Congrats on raising capital. I never have. It seems you have in the past. Which explains why it might have been easier for you. I have, however closed five million dollar sales with single international customers for the startup I mentioned I self-funded and launched from my garage. Different paths in life. If it hadn't been for 2008 I would be telling a very different story today. That's just the way things go sometimes.

newbamboo 5y ago

I think that might be the point op was making. “Done with YC” == “Done thinking YC is the only way.” I’m not sure though.

over50 5y ago
That's it, kind of. I would say "Done thinking YC is the right fit for me" could be more accurate. Of course, now they've flagged the thread, so not sure if any of this discussion matters. Instead of cancelling the discussion, it should be actively promoted. I am not accusing of YC doing anything explicitly. I think they make the right decisions when it comes to what you need in a young team in order to succeed. An example of this is the multiple founder bias. Right on point. Young people are just not equipped for the brutality entrepreneurship can deliver. I also think that some of their process results in unintentional age bias. Asking for age is one example. Older founders might not need or want co-founders. And relocation is something might be impossible as well. As an example, in my case, I have full industrial-class manufacturing capabilities where I live. Moving to YC for three months, quite literally, means I would be far less efficient and likely get very little done. Or, I would have to abandon work on hardware and focus solely on software.
- tptacek 5y ago
  They didn't cancel the discussion; users did. I didn't flag this thread, but thought about it. It's got nothing to do with the validity of your argument. I'm in my 40s, am alert to ageism, and tend to think it's a real thing. But threads like this, where there's barely even circumstantial evidence in the story as presented (the whole story might be much clearer!) tend to be total shitshows as threads. I think the bias towards founder teams is especially problematic. If I was trying to marshal a case that YC pattern-matches on 25-year-old top-school grads, I'd leave the solo-founder thing out. They're right about solo founders, and they're right along multiple dimensions. We can have a healthy debate about that, but all it'll do is muddy the waters about the ageism thing. It sounds to me, given all the circumstances you've rattled off, the YC just isn't a fit for what you want to do. It wasn't at all a fit for my last couple businesses, either, and they did (/are doing) great.
  - smithmayowa 5y ago
    Unrelated and I expect to be downvoted but you were right https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1428764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1428764 The U.S did leave Afghanistan and now the Taliban's are about taking over, I'm always stunned when I see decade old predictions that were accurate.
- dang 5y ago
  > now they've flagged the thread Just to be clear, users flagged it, not moderators. When you see [flagged] on a submission, it nearly always means that users flagged it (this is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html).
  - over50 5y ago
    > Just to be clear, users flagged it, not moderators. I understand this. In this case "they" did not mean YC. Maybe I should have clarified.

the-dude 5y ago

You seem to have raised money before almost 20 years ago. That sure must help.

blagie 5y ago
That's precisely why being an older person helps. You have experience under your belt. If you're 55 and have never done anything, that's a strong signal to not invest in you, since you're unlikely to do something now. 20-year-olds are risks. 55-year-old have track records.
- the-dude 5y ago
  Experience with fundraising under your belt, yes. That was my point.
- caddemon 5y ago
  A 55 year old who is new to entrepreneurship should be viewed as analogous to a 20 year old, not worse. Track record should be evaluated without reference to age, there's nothing wrong with pivoting in your career. I thought maybe OP was reading into things too much (and maybe he is with respect to YC), but you're proving his point.
  - brudgers 5y ago
    A fifty five year old has more track record upon which to form a judgement. A twenty year old who can't find cofounders is more likely to be a positive outlier than a fifty five year old who can't. There are another thirty-five years of adult people skills there. If a person knows a cofounder would help but eschews finding one, it's not a strong positive signal.
    - caddemon 5y ago
      I'm not sure that's true, a 20 year old is among their peers when trying to find a cofounder. I would expect it to be harder for a 55 year old to find a cofounder. I understand judging on not having a cofounder period, but age shouldn't come into it directly. It's true an older person has more past, but if they were in a different line of work before there is only so much info that can be gained from it. It shouldn't be treated as a negative, at least not any more so than a fresh out of college kid is viewed. At the end of the day it is quite literally age discrimination when you start making different judgements about the same measures (like presence of cofounder for example) just because of someone's age. To me that is clearly wrong. I don't have a problem with judging on factors that happen to relate to age (again like presence of cofounder), but however a particular person scores on that metric has to be taken at face value, not with reference to age.

sillysaurusx 5y ago

I had a convo with an angel who was asking me (for some reason) for advice on breaking into the YC investor network. The most surprising thing is that angels appear to be semi-excluded now. I don’t have anything more than two datapoints: 1. That angel who reached out to me 2. The fact that the YC investor demo day application explicitly excludes angels. Of course, #2 is misleading. You can certainly submit an app as an angel. You just can’t fill out >5 of the fields, because they begin with “If you represent an investment firm…” The takeaway for me was, ironically, there may be an opportunity for angels to band together and take some risks. YC is all about risk analysis. If they don’t want to risk it on a 58yo solo founder with satellites in orbit, perhaps others will. But you’re right about YC one-itis. Right now it’s hard to see any alternatives. They do exist, though. EDIT: By the way, a word to OP: don’t take rejection so hard. (http://www.paulgraham.com/judgement.html http://www.paulgraham.com/judgement.html helps with this.) One of the key features of YC is that they invest in people who look like a good bet. As I was reading though your post, I couldn’t help but think that pivoting a few times may not be a good bet. It’s true that startups do pivot, but not having a clear idea of who your customers are is also a warning sign. As someone else said, put some contact info in your profile. You’ll get dozens of people reaching out to you from this thread if you hurry. Of course, you could be right about the discrimination aspect, which is different. In that case, rejection would be personal.

411111111111111 5y ago
> The most surprising thing is that angels appear to be semi-excluded now. That might be a consequence from that Dreamworld debacle... Maybe... Hopefully... Having an obvious scam legitimizing themselves through YCombinator was at the very least very disconcerting. (Just a random person's opinion) https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/dreamworld https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/dreamworld

DiabloD3 5y ago

Congrats.

blagie 5y ago

As an older founder, it's easier to raise $20M Series A than as a younger founder. I'm pretty confident I have a much better chance of raising money than I did a decade or two ago. To be specific, I think I would have had almost no chance way back when, and I think I'd probably have better-than-even-odds today, if I tried (which I wouldn't; I'm committed to what I'm doing). However, that doesn't mean places don't age-discriminate. Truth of the matter is, I'd enjoy doing Y-Combinator at some point in my life, but I don't think it will every be possible: - I don't think they'd take someone like me - If they did, once you have kids and mortgage, you can't relocate - If you do, once you have kids, you can't do the Y-Combinator lifestyle of 80 hour work weeks, sprints, and ramen - The offer would be exploitative, for people with more senior backgrounds. Perhaps I can get by this, but 7% is a lot to give up for advising. Y-Combinator: "We think that $125k is currently the right amount for founders to be able to run their company and pay expenses for around 5-6 months, and sometimes even longer" (https://www.ycombinator.com/deal/ https://www.ycombinator.com/deal/) That's great for a grad student, but I think a lot of people read this to mean "no older people." I mean, I might be able to self-finance or raise capital, but founding team for $125k for 6+ months? That's delusional if you're out-of-school and have expenses.

the-dude 5y ago
Hasn't COVID moved the whole relocation thing out of the way?
tptacek 5y ago
The move to SFBA is a real issue, and an obstacle for anyone with family commitments. I'm not sure what they can realistically do about it, since part of the premise of the program is that you're benefiting from being physically proximate to them. The rest of this, I think you're wrong about. I'm at a YC company right now (Fly.io) --- technically, I'm a YC founder at Fly.io --- and I've spent the last several years working directly with YC companies, and I haven't perceived any distinctive "80 hour work week, subsist on ramen" lifestyle out of those companies. I know why people believe this about YC companies, and I think it's a convenient fiction YC itself sort of deliberately doesn't knock back, but I don't think there's much truth to it. I used to think 7% was ludicrous for what YC was bringing to the table, but YC brings a lot more to the table now than it did when I thought that. There are cynical ways to look at the YC benefit and there are generous ways to look at it, but either way: if you're going to go on to raise more money, you're getting something significantly more than $125k for the share you give up. I'd be more concerned about the "$125k for a founding team is ludicrous" thing but for the fact that for me, and for most of the people I talk to about this stuff, the alternative to YC is bootstrapping and consulting. If you're looking at the money YC gives you for the session as the entire financial permission structure for your company, you weren't going to succeed no matter who invested in your company.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

over50 5y ago

> You've got YC one-itis. There are a zillion other places to raise money. Any one funding source says no 98% of the time, it has nothing to do with you. I don't think you read my post. Or, if you did, you didn't understand it. What you are saying has nothing to do with what I said, what I think of YC or anything in my post. Congrats on raising capital. I never have. It seems you have in the past. Which explains why it might have been easier for you. I have, however closed five million dollar sales with single international customers for the startup I mentioned I self-funded and launched from my garage. Different paths in life. If it hadn't been for 2008 I would be telling a very different story today. That's just the way things go sometimes.