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I fail to see how this new "servant economy" isn't an improvement on the unskilled labor sector. It's never been easier for someone who needs to work two jobs.

I fail to see how this new "servant economy" isn't an improvement on the unskilled labor sector. It's never been easier for someone who needs to work two jobs... to work two jobs; one with weekly hours and another you can do whenever is convenient. It has never been easier for a student to make some cash when it's convenient for them and with no weekly obligation. These are improvements on jobs that already existed and new jobs altogether. We should probably be focusing on how to provide more upward mobility and access to education instead of demonizing improvements to an economic sector which will always exist.

Ericson2314 5y ago
> It's never been easier for someone who needs to work two jobs... to work two jobs People fought for 40 hour work week. If everyone works more hours it will kill productivity and also just suck. I am with you that this stuff is an effect not cause of declining worker power, but the fear this will further erode old victories is genuine and shouldn't be dismissed. Ultimately, yesterday's worker power is not a substitute for a lack today, but (hopefully) once that is somehow fixed, it is really important to turn these norms stuff back.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > but the fear this will further erode old victories is genuine and shouldn't be dismissed. It should be dismissed because it shows the old “victories” were simply a happenstance of labor supply and demand. It is exposing the fact that there was not really a victory in the sense of it being codified into law. Any effort trying to blame VCs (or any business) for low wages or quality of life at work is a waste of time, as it simply requires a legislative solution.
  - Ericson2314 5y ago
    > It should be dismissed because it shows the old “victories” were simply a happenstance of labor supply and demand. Sure, but not in some exogenous passive way. Market power distorts heavily, and organizing is essential. > It is exposing the fact that there was not really a victory in the sense of it being codified into law. No, it was caudified into law. But law, especially a moribund poorly-written elgacy codebase like our law, is no substitute for ongoing power. That is a fundamental illiberalism of our current society, like it or not.
- somethingAlex 5y ago
  I wasn't talking about people needing to work more than 40 hours. I agree, exceeding that shouldn't become normal. I'm talking about the people who have to take care of their kid, so they can't work the usual 9 to 5. They got 28 hours from target, but they do need some more money, so they do UberEats at night. I'm talking about the student who really can't work in the day because they have to study and attend classes. Hell, sometimes they can't even work at night due to their group project and their team members slacking off. Well, now they can just Uber when they have time instead of committing to a schedule at the local Subway.
  - Ericson2314 5y ago
    I get that, but we should also have parental leave that is at least a year. Full time students should be studdying hard and have no time to work. Of course, that is not how it works in the US in the short term, and the gig economy is good in this regard comparison to the terrible last-minute scheduling on-prem unskilled labor has turned too. Just saying we gotta keep our eyes on the prize long term. Even if you, dear reader, are a well-paid programmer or whatever, remember the powers that be only automate things with the proles don't show up to work, so your interests are aligned.
    - Ericson2314 5y ago
      > have no time to work. the students living expenses should also be paid for accordingly, I forgot to make clear.
mattcantstop 5y ago
I think this is a great response. It isn't creating upward mobility, but it is creating flexibility for those who want to pursue it, and improving previous service jobs. We can separately try to figure out how to create more upward mobility systematically while we do these small improvements. I am often against these companies and how they operate (and still think there is improvement to be made) but this framing changed my perspective a bit.

Ericson2314 5y ago

> It's never been easier for someone who needs to work two jobs... to work two jobs People fought for 40 hour work week. If everyone works more hours it will kill productivity and also just suck. I am with you that this stuff is an effect not cause of declining worker power, but the fear this will further erode old victories is genuine and shouldn't be dismissed. Ultimately, yesterday's worker power is not a substitute for a lack today, but (hopefully) once that is somehow fixed, it is really important to turn these norms stuff back.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
> but the fear this will further erode old victories is genuine and shouldn't be dismissed. It should be dismissed because it shows the old “victories” were simply a happenstance of labor supply and demand. It is exposing the fact that there was not really a victory in the sense of it being codified into law. Any effort trying to blame VCs (or any business) for low wages or quality of life at work is a waste of time, as it simply requires a legislative solution.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  > It should be dismissed because it shows the old “victories” were simply a happenstance of labor supply and demand. Sure, but not in some exogenous passive way. Market power distorts heavily, and organizing is essential. > It is exposing the fact that there was not really a victory in the sense of it being codified into law. No, it was caudified into law. But law, especially a moribund poorly-written elgacy codebase like our law, is no substitute for ongoing power. That is a fundamental illiberalism of our current society, like it or not.
somethingAlex 5y ago
I wasn't talking about people needing to work more than 40 hours. I agree, exceeding that shouldn't become normal. I'm talking about the people who have to take care of their kid, so they can't work the usual 9 to 5. They got 28 hours from target, but they do need some more money, so they do UberEats at night. I'm talking about the student who really can't work in the day because they have to study and attend classes. Hell, sometimes they can't even work at night due to their group project and their team members slacking off. Well, now they can just Uber when they have time instead of committing to a schedule at the local Subway.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  I get that, but we should also have parental leave that is at least a year. Full time students should be studdying hard and have no time to work. Of course, that is not how it works in the US in the short term, and the gig economy is good in this regard comparison to the terrible last-minute scheduling on-prem unskilled labor has turned too. Just saying we gotta keep our eyes on the prize long term. Even if you, dear reader, are a well-paid programmer or whatever, remember the powers that be only automate things with the proles don't show up to work, so your interests are aligned.
  - Ericson2314 5y ago
    > have no time to work. the students living expenses should also be paid for accordingly, I forgot to make clear.

mattcantstop 5y ago

I think this is a great response. It isn't creating upward mobility, but it is creating flexibility for those who want to pursue it, and improving previous service jobs. We can separately try to figure out how to create more upward mobility systematically while we do these small improvements. I am often against these companies and how they operate (and still think there is improvement to be made) but this framing changed my perspective a bit.