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This is about Apple scanning the pictures on your phone, not the pictures that have been synced to iCloud.

camillomiller 5y ago
A good point to keep in mind, there is no "scanning". There is a hashing, then a check of the hashes - not the pictures - and if a hash matches the on-device NCMEC hashes list a "security voucher" is generated. Said voucher will be uploaded to iCloud photos along with the picture it refers to, without anyone in the chain being able to know that it happened.
0x000000001 5y ago
they already scan all the images on your phone. that's how i can search for "dog" or "flowers" and find results in my photo library.
- idle_zealot 5y ago
  Local scanning/indexing is fine. It’s reporting the results of the scan to Apple that people have a problem with.
  - danudey 5y ago
    I'm not sure that's true. A lot of people seem to have less of a problem with Apple scanning for CSAM and more of a problem that they're doing it on the phone (and looking for specific images, I guess?).
    - idle_zealot 5y ago
      It’s the fact that the phone is scanning your images and relaying the results to Apple that’s the issue. If this feature were just an extension of existing on-device scanning and stayed on the device, perhaps informing the owner “Hey, it appears a few of your images may be CSAM. Would you like to review them?” then I don’t think people would be very upset.
sillysaurusx 5y ago
Do they do device local scanning for this purpose? Apple’s original announcement said that it was to give law enforcement answers about photos synced to iCloud. If so, then I’ll immediately change my mind and join the protest. Device local scanning is equivalent to someone checking your personal possessions at your home.
- wobblykiwi 5y ago
  Yes, you can find more information here: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Technical_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni... From the overview: > Apple’s method of detecting known CSAM is designed with user privacy in mind. Instead of scanning images in the cloud, the system performs on-device matching using a database of known CSAM image hashes provided by NCMEC and other child-safety organizations. Apple further transforms this database into an unreadable set of hashes, which is securely stored on users’ devices.
  - sillysaurusx 5y ago
    Yes, but my understanding was that they do this for iCloud-synced photos. If iCloud is off, do they still do this? Your quote actually doesn’t contradict that, which is my main hangup. If you turn on iCloud, you forfeit certain expectations. I’ll read through it carefully now. EDIT: It was the very first sentence of the intro: > CSAM Detection enables Apple to accurately identify and report iCloud users who store known Child Sexual Abuse Material (CSAM) in their iCloud Photos accounts. I don’t get it. It’s their platform. Other image platforms do this matching. Old film shops used to do this matching. Why is this evil?
    - dmitrygr 5y ago
      If you scan in the cloud, photos not synced to the cloud are 100% not going to be scanned - they are JUST NOT THERE. If you can on device, you are one "if(" condition away from "Accidentally "scanning other photos. See the issue now?
    - idle_zealot 5y ago
danudey 5y ago
Do you have any general objection to client software scanning content it uploads before it uploads it, rather than afterwards? Scanning it on your phone means that unencrypted versions of your data don't have to leave your phone, which IMHO gives more privacy than any other option. Do you have an objection even though it means that the content (in a form readable by anyone else) never leaves your device? Would it be preferable if Apple scanned files that were synced to iCloud, but no longer encrypted them in transit/at rest, or encrypted them in a way that they are able to decrypt?

A good point to keep in mind, there is no "scanning". There is a hashing, then a check of the hashes - not the pictures - and if a hash matches the on-device NCMEC hashes list a "security voucher" is generated. Said voucher will be uploaded to iCloud photos along with the picture it refers to, without anyone in the chain being able to know that it happened.

0x000000001 5y ago

they already scan all the images on your phone. that's how i can search for "dog" or "flowers" and find results in my photo library.

idle_zealot 5y ago
Local scanning/indexing is fine. It’s reporting the results of the scan to Apple that people have a problem with.
- danudey 5y ago
  I'm not sure that's true. A lot of people seem to have less of a problem with Apple scanning for CSAM and more of a problem that they're doing it on the phone (and looking for specific images, I guess?).
  - idle_zealot 5y ago
    It’s the fact that the phone is scanning your images and relaying the results to Apple that’s the issue. If this feature were just an extension of existing on-device scanning and stayed on the device, perhaps informing the owner “Hey, it appears a few of your images may be CSAM. Would you like to review them?” then I don’t think people would be very upset.

sillysaurusx 5y ago

Do they do device local scanning for this purpose? Apple’s original announcement said that it was to give law enforcement answers about photos synced to iCloud. If so, then I’ll immediately change my mind and join the protest. Device local scanning is equivalent to someone checking your personal possessions at your home.

wobblykiwi 5y ago
Yes, you can find more information here: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Technical_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni... From the overview: > Apple’s method of detecting known CSAM is designed with user privacy in mind. Instead of scanning images in the cloud, the system performs on-device matching using a database of known CSAM image hashes provided by NCMEC and other child-safety organizations. Apple further transforms this database into an unreadable set of hashes, which is securely stored on users’ devices.
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  Yes, but my understanding was that they do this for iCloud-synced photos. If iCloud is off, do they still do this? Your quote actually doesn’t contradict that, which is my main hangup. If you turn on iCloud, you forfeit certain expectations. I’ll read through it carefully now. EDIT: It was the very first sentence of the intro: > CSAM Detection enables Apple to accurately identify and report iCloud users who store known Child Sexual Abuse Material (CSAM) in their iCloud Photos accounts. I don’t get it. It’s their platform. Other image platforms do this matching. Old film shops used to do this matching. Why is this evil?
  - dmitrygr 5y ago
    If you scan in the cloud, photos not synced to the cloud are 100% not going to be scanned - they are JUST NOT THERE. If you can on device, you are one "if(" condition away from "Accidentally "scanning other photos. See the issue now?
  - idle_zealot 5y ago

danudey 5y ago

Do you have any general objection to client software scanning content it uploads before it uploads it, rather than afterwards? Scanning it on your phone means that unencrypted versions of your data don't have to leave your phone, which IMHO gives more privacy than any other option. Do you have an objection even though it means that the content (in a form readable by anyone else) never leaves your device? Would it be preferable if Apple scanned files that were synced to iCloud, but no longer encrypted them in transit/at rest, or encrypted them in a way that they are able to decrypt?