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I think HN readership is so used to live in the digital world that many forgot we can live without internet as humans. ANY connected digital media can become

I think HN readership is so used to live in the digital world that many forgot we can live without internet as humans. ANY connected digital media can become a 1984-style spying device if you don't have full access to it or even if you have that but you are not an experienced electrical engineer. The only defensible platforms are nondigital media and airgapped computing. I, for one, wouldn't shoot a nude with any digital device nowadays. Only exception would be a camera that gets connected only to airgapped computers. But we are losing that too. In a short time we won't even be able to pay for that Polaroid or to buy a Librephone without being traced in some digital form. We are losing all the battles but we need at least to prioritize. The cloud is lost, connected devices are lost. We need at least to keep cash payments, and to pressure the government to break up digital monopolies. I don't want to sound like desperate luddite but I really think that warrants requirements are unenforceable in the digital world and we really really need to keep important parts of our lives in the analog one.

ccvannorman 5y ago
>we can live without internet as humans. Sorry, but I'm not going back to pre-internet days to accomplish my life goals. You might as well tell people in 1900 that they could live just as well without electricity. If you want to be a monk or Amish, sure. If you want to be a normal human in pursuit of self-actualization and helping the world, internet is a de-facto critical piece of your life.
- alerighi 5y ago
  If my job wouldn't be in the IT field, I would be certainly be able to live without the internet. You can live without the internet, as does billions of people in the world. My grandma never had a computer, or a smartphone, she doesn't even know how to say the word internet, and still she lives fine, and she knows more informed than I that use internet, reads newspapers, on paper, without stupid ads, listens to the radio, watches TV, calls her friends with the landline phone, and most importantly, a thing that nowadays is lost, she goes outside and talks to people. It seems like we no longer can talk to people, we are constantly busy with our devices, back in the days if you were on a train what could you do, read a book, or talk with the people sitting next to you, nowadays you use your phone, listen to music with headphones, and isolate from others. Internet was a great thing, but the internet of the beginning, of the '90 and first '00, where it was a cool thing, where you could have used it to learn new stuff, the internet of IRC chats, the internet of forums, communities. The internet was good because it was something alternative to the real life, something you did in the evening when you didn't have other things to do, nowadays internet became a substitute of the real life, on the internet you share things you do, you talk with people that you know in person, and then when you meet what have to say since everyone knows everything others have done thanks to social media? Also in the modern internet privacy is destroyed, back in the days one rule was never use your real name on the internet, and never share personal information. Now it's the opposite, Facebook requires you to use your real name, YouTube wants your ID to watch age restricted videos, they encourage you to share to them all your personal information, that is bad. I wouldn't return to the days before internet, but I would return to the '90, where internet was something good, and just a cool tool you could have used, but not something fundamental for your life.
  - MisterSandman 5y ago
    As a person who comes from a country where a large percentage of people live without internet, I'm not sure what your point is. These people don't do it out of choice, they do it out of necessity. They're the poorest of the poorest, and have no access to healthcare, banking and employment as an almost direct result of the lack of internet access.
    - alerighi 5y ago
      That we lived most of our life without internet. And nowadays it seems that if the internet is not working is the end of the world. > and have no access to healthcare, banking and employment as an almost direct result of the lack of internet access. Yes, because we didn't have all that things before internet was invented. Or people that doesn't use the internet, like all the old people that doesn't where to turn on a computer, doesn't have access to them.
fragmede 5y ago
Technically speaking, yes, anything with firmware can be corrupted. But I refuse to meekly accept that level of tech nihilism because smartphones are an invaluable tool in this modern era. I'm not going to stop having one, although the vendor may change, because the important things in my life are better stored as digital. Photos and videos of friends and family who have since passed. Physical photos will be lost in a fire but with cloud backups, they can be reprinted. Analog works, until, realistically, it's impractical. The cloud isn't lost yet. Don't give up. Please help us fight for it. Donate to the EFF.
npteljes 5y ago
The internet I think is critical nowadays, and therefore I'd like to see a part of it open, or having open alternatives. Email, for one, is still in a fine place, considering the myriad of proprietary and closed services. It's technically true what you write, that we can live life without the Internet. But we can live life in a million other sucky ways too, and that doesn't mean that we should. I find it arbitrary how people draw the line, and they are fun to argue, but no amount of good reasons make the line not arbitrary. Abuse has a long history and the older ways of living had their share too.

ccvannorman 5y ago

>we can live without internet as humans. Sorry, but I'm not going back to pre-internet days to accomplish my life goals. You might as well tell people in 1900 that they could live just as well without electricity. If you want to be a monk or Amish, sure. If you want to be a normal human in pursuit of self-actualization and helping the world, internet is a de-facto critical piece of your life.

alerighi 5y ago
If my job wouldn't be in the IT field, I would be certainly be able to live without the internet. You can live without the internet, as does billions of people in the world. My grandma never had a computer, or a smartphone, she doesn't even know how to say the word internet, and still she lives fine, and she knows more informed than I that use internet, reads newspapers, on paper, without stupid ads, listens to the radio, watches TV, calls her friends with the landline phone, and most importantly, a thing that nowadays is lost, she goes outside and talks to people. It seems like we no longer can talk to people, we are constantly busy with our devices, back in the days if you were on a train what could you do, read a book, or talk with the people sitting next to you, nowadays you use your phone, listen to music with headphones, and isolate from others. Internet was a great thing, but the internet of the beginning, of the '90 and first '00, where it was a cool thing, where you could have used it to learn new stuff, the internet of IRC chats, the internet of forums, communities. The internet was good because it was something alternative to the real life, something you did in the evening when you didn't have other things to do, nowadays internet became a substitute of the real life, on the internet you share things you do, you talk with people that you know in person, and then when you meet what have to say since everyone knows everything others have done thanks to social media? Also in the modern internet privacy is destroyed, back in the days one rule was never use your real name on the internet, and never share personal information. Now it's the opposite, Facebook requires you to use your real name, YouTube wants your ID to watch age restricted videos, they encourage you to share to them all your personal information, that is bad. I wouldn't return to the days before internet, but I would return to the '90, where internet was something good, and just a cool tool you could have used, but not something fundamental for your life.
- MisterSandman 5y ago
  As a person who comes from a country where a large percentage of people live without internet, I'm not sure what your point is. These people don't do it out of choice, they do it out of necessity. They're the poorest of the poorest, and have no access to healthcare, banking and employment as an almost direct result of the lack of internet access.
  - alerighi 5y ago
    That we lived most of our life without internet. And nowadays it seems that if the internet is not working is the end of the world. > and have no access to healthcare, banking and employment as an almost direct result of the lack of internet access. Yes, because we didn't have all that things before internet was invented. Or people that doesn't use the internet, like all the old people that doesn't where to turn on a computer, doesn't have access to them.

fragmede 5y ago

Technically speaking, yes, anything with firmware can be corrupted. But I refuse to meekly accept that level of tech nihilism because smartphones are an invaluable tool in this modern era. I'm not going to stop having one, although the vendor may change, because the important things in my life are better stored as digital. Photos and videos of friends and family who have since passed. Physical photos will be lost in a fire but with cloud backups, they can be reprinted. Analog works, until, realistically, it's impractical. The cloud isn't lost yet. Don't give up. Please help us fight for it. Donate to the EFF.

npteljes 5y ago

The internet I think is critical nowadays, and therefore I'd like to see a part of it open, or having open alternatives. Email, for one, is still in a fine place, considering the myriad of proprietary and closed services. It's technically true what you write, that we can live life without the Internet. But we can live life in a million other sucky ways too, and that doesn't mean that we should. I find it arbitrary how people draw the line, and they are fun to argue, but no amount of good reasons make the line not arbitrary. Abuse has a long history and the older ways of living had their share too.