4 ms·
> D&D evolved out of a literal wargame (chainmail) ok. Please avoid downvoting me then?
by platz 5y ago
> D&D evolved out of a literal wargame (chainmail)
ok. Please avoid downvoting me then?
- panzagl 5y agoIt might be because: >replacing formulas with die rolls makes no sense, as D&D still has formulas, and most wargames had die rolls.
- ohyeshedid 5y agoThen there's the bit about: >...gained popularity in the early 20th century... I don't think the 70's count as early in the 20th century.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- platz 5y ago> The English writer H. G. Wells developed his own codified rules for playing with toy soldiers, which he published in a book titled Little Wars (1913). This is widely remembered as the first rulebook for miniature wargaming. Little Wars had very simple rules to make it fun and accessible to anyone. > The world's first recreational wargaming club was the University Kriegspiel [sic] Club, founded in 1873 at Oxford University in England.
- ohyeshedid 5y ago> Actually, dnd is a stylized, simplified form of wargaming that gained popularity in the early 20th century, replacing formulas with dice rolls. That's the entirety of what you wrote. Correct the sentence, not the people reading it as written.
- wolverine876 5y agoWhat are you quoting? I would like to read more of it.
- panzagl 5y agoJon Peterson's "Playing at the World" gets into the wargaming history of D&D.
- panzagl 5y agoBoth Little Wars and Kriegspiel are much simpler than AD&D.
- da_chicken 5y agoI'll buy that Little Wars is simple (from my understanding). Kriegspiel, however, was very far from simple. It was just focused on battle simulation. From my understanding, it was intended to be played by each side (either individual or team) being in their own room with their own map of the battle. Communication would go to the referee, who would run "reality". The referee would have a map and use charts, tables, dice, and pure fiat to sent information and update the state of the game to the players. Plus the game was played to a real clock. An ideal setup would have the opposing generals only communicating with the referee by means of runners, to simulate the telephone effect. I really can't call a game that requires no less than three terrain maps and three rooms to be "simple". Especially when you see the dice the game uses.
- panzagl 5y agoSimpler than AD&D, not implying that they're simple. What you described is a big kriegsspiel- the equivalent of Gygax and Kuntz running multiple parties through the Greyhawk dungeon at the same time. They would have used similar methods to limit information being shared between parties. Or for a more measurable metric, the von Reisswitz rules are 76 pages, which iirc was about the size of the player's handbook: https://toofatlardies.co.uk/product/kriegsspiel-1824/ https://toofatlardies.co.uk/product/kriegsspiel-1824/ Edit- Oops, just reread what I originally wrote and I said 'much' simpler, which would be stretching things.
- CamperBob2 5y agoHonestly, I'm not sure what you expected, given the intersection of the venue, the topic at hand, and the inescapable stereotypical nature of the adherents of both. You're lucky your karma is still a positive value with no imaginary component...