5 ms·

> Every single plane ticket I take should have a tax which is used to offset or capture the carbon emissions of my flight. I will pay it. So what you're sayin

by titzer 5y ago

> Every single plane ticket I take should have a tax which is used to offset or capture the carbon emissions of my flight. I will pay it. So what you're saying is that it won't change your behavior. Why don't you just donate $1000 or whatever to a charity? (I dunno, maybe you already do). I don't mean to attack you, but encoded in your very language is the exact problem. No one is willing to change their own behavior, they want other people to change. Repeat this x 7 billion and suddenly you understand what the inertia is. We live in the fading dream of a world that we sold to us that we could do whatever we want with absolutely no consequences; worse, that everything that we did that "made money" and contributed to GDP growth was good for everyone. Turns out that that was bullshit greed talking and the God of consequences is visiting its revenge on us through the same lesson every petri dish full of bacteria learns: you will choke to death on your own waste products.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
meowkit 5y ago
> No one is willing to change their own behavior, they want other people to change. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons A tax is a practical way to address this. Internalizing the externalities is the way the wiki puts it.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  It’s not practical if there isn’t the political will to implement it.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Following up: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/07/obituary-carbon-tax-beloved-climate-policy-dies-47/619507/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/07/obituary... (Carbon Tax, Beloved Policy to Fix Climate Change, Is Dead at 47)
rocgf 5y ago
Pardon me, but your post is just about virtue signalling or you're missing the point entirely. If you increase the taxes for something, you will drop the demand and, therefore, consumption. It doesn't matter whether OP will change his/her behaviour, it matter that we, as a planet of people taking X flights per year, will reduce our flights by Y% due to tax. I don't want to change my behaviour because that doesn't fix anything. I want to be forced to changed my behaviour, along with everyone else on the planet, through taxation for which I am happy to vote for and support with all my being.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  > I want to be forced to changed my behaviour, along with everyone else on the planet, through taxation for which I am happy to vote for and support with all my being. I agree with you, and do so with my fiat (EVs, solar, no air travel unless absolutely necessary, vegetarian, etc). There are billions of global citizens who likely don’t agree with you (or us), who will happily consume regardless of the consequences (and either can’t or won’t pay for the per ton emissions). The challenge is in changing the behavior of disinterested or adversarial parties in the face of political apathy. It’s going to get uncomfortable.
  - rocgf 5y ago
    I was by no means implying that people want this, I know categorically that almost nobody wants this. But it doesn't matter what people want, I have already lost hope because nothing in our system is geared towards helping out with this. The incentives are completely misaligned and nothing will really change for a long, long time. As far as I see it, you have the following: - Our entire world economy is based simply on consuming as much as possible. This is exactly the opposite of what needs to happen in order for us to have a chance, the exact polar opposite. - People are willing to protest even a few cents in tax increases, even in Europe. In the USA, everything required for climate action will be seen as communist by half the country. - You have so many other countries coming from behind that will simply want the standard of living you see in the West. (China, India, Brazil, Africa etc.). - Emissions are actually rising, even though we knew about climate change for decades. - Politicians have their career in 4 year chunks. Nobody wants to rock the boat by increasing taxes on their constituents and get voted out. - People have somewhat short lives. Most people who are alive now will not worst of the consequences. You have very large forces pushing towards maintaining the status quo. What needs to happen in order to fix our planet will just not happen because it cannot happen. We might be able to limit the damage, but that's about it. If science and technology don't solve this by some sort of miracle, it will only get worse.
habosa 5y ago
Actually I do personally offset my personal carbon footprint by taxing myself, via Klima: https://klima.com/ https://klima.com/ However that's not an efficient way for 8 billion people to get out of this problem.

by titzer 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

meowkit 5y ago

> No one is willing to change their own behavior, they want other people to change. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons A tax is a practical way to address this. Internalizing the externalities is the way the wiki puts it.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
It’s not practical if there isn’t the political will to implement it.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Following up: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/07/obituary-carbon-tax-beloved-climate-policy-dies-47/619507/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/07/obituary... (Carbon Tax, Beloved Policy to Fix Climate Change, Is Dead at 47)

rocgf 5y ago

Pardon me, but your post is just about virtue signalling or you're missing the point entirely. If you increase the taxes for something, you will drop the demand and, therefore, consumption. It doesn't matter whether OP will change his/her behaviour, it matter that we, as a planet of people taking X flights per year, will reduce our flights by Y% due to tax. I don't want to change my behaviour because that doesn't fix anything. I want to be forced to changed my behaviour, along with everyone else on the planet, through taxation for which I am happy to vote for and support with all my being.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
> I want to be forced to changed my behaviour, along with everyone else on the planet, through taxation for which I am happy to vote for and support with all my being. I agree with you, and do so with my fiat (EVs, solar, no air travel unless absolutely necessary, vegetarian, etc). There are billions of global citizens who likely don’t agree with you (or us), who will happily consume regardless of the consequences (and either can’t or won’t pay for the per ton emissions). The challenge is in changing the behavior of disinterested or adversarial parties in the face of political apathy. It’s going to get uncomfortable.
- rocgf 5y ago
  I was by no means implying that people want this, I know categorically that almost nobody wants this. But it doesn't matter what people want, I have already lost hope because nothing in our system is geared towards helping out with this. The incentives are completely misaligned and nothing will really change for a long, long time. As far as I see it, you have the following: - Our entire world economy is based simply on consuming as much as possible. This is exactly the opposite of what needs to happen in order for us to have a chance, the exact polar opposite. - People are willing to protest even a few cents in tax increases, even in Europe. In the USA, everything required for climate action will be seen as communist by half the country. - You have so many other countries coming from behind that will simply want the standard of living you see in the West. (China, India, Brazil, Africa etc.). - Emissions are actually rising, even though we knew about climate change for decades. - Politicians have their career in 4 year chunks. Nobody wants to rock the boat by increasing taxes on their constituents and get voted out. - People have somewhat short lives. Most people who are alive now will not worst of the consequences. You have very large forces pushing towards maintaining the status quo. What needs to happen in order to fix our planet will just not happen because it cannot happen. We might be able to limit the damage, but that's about it. If science and technology don't solve this by some sort of miracle, it will only get worse.

habosa 5y ago

Actually I do personally offset my personal carbon footprint by taxing myself, via Klima: https://klima.com/ https://klima.com/ However that's not an efficient way for 8 billion people to get out of this problem.