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No. I refuse. I'm vaccinated. I social distance. I have good personal hygiene. I've made efforts to mitigate the risks to my family and others we might encount

No. I refuse. I'm vaccinated. I social distance. I have good personal hygiene. I've made efforts to mitigate the risks to my family and others we might encounter. I respect your right to decide for yourself. I respect a brick-and-mortar business deciding it would only prefer to serve people who wear masks. I respect a workplace defining whether its employees should wear a mask (while providing reasonable accommodations to those would prefer otherwise). But I have genuine doubts about the efficacy of the masks that are widely sold, used, and accepted. When I see selective enforcement and selective outrage, it's hard not to see so many of our government leaders as blatant hypocrites. When I see absolutely no sense of humility from our policy makers on what they actually know and don't know, it's hard not to completely lose trust in their leadership. And then, when so many peer appeals to mask or vaccinate don't come from a place of genuine concern or care but of a "you are irresponsible and brought this on yourself" or "you deserve to be punished", it's as if many are desperate to confirm the worst stereotypes that they are just authoritarian nannies. And as a result of all that, it's difficult not to have an impulsive response of 'mind your own business'. I'm open to data. I'm open to discussion. But those who only bring condescension can go **** themselves.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
goldenkey 5y ago
Vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent covid strains. Vaccinated people infected with delta have measurable viral loads similar to those who are unvaccinated and infected with the variant. They don't get as sick but spread the virus nearly as well as unvaccinated folks. The spreading rate is correlated with the mutation rate. A good mask, N95 or above, can prevent covid transmission and contraction. Cloth and surgical masks on the other hand are like trying to stop mosquitos with a chain link fence. People that have the vaccine and walk around indoor spaces without a mask are actually causing their own eventual demise, as they will be giving the virus hosts (themselves included), allowing the virus to mutate to its next more virulent form that vaccines have no chance against. I know it's painful to wear a good mask as you cannot show off your pretty face. Do it for your country, for Biden and for our hero Fauci. :-)
- slumdev 5y ago
  Vaccinated people must be required to wear masks to prevent the transmission of more virulent strains. Unvaccinated people, because they would be homebound (or killed) by the more virulent strains, must be allowed to go about their business maskless. This way, we'll achieve herd immunity by spreading less virulent strains around. Sort of like an airborne live attenuated vaccine.
  - goldenkey 5y ago
    This sounds like a plan Fauci would come up with himself.
criticaltinker 5y ago
Question out of genuine curiosity - would you be willing to wear a mask if you happened to be infected again (ie wear a mask for some time after you were symptomatic and/or had a positive test)? IMO that's a situation that deserves masking, but perhaps the other rational you mentioned is a stronger factor in your decision.
- trentnix 5y ago
  I wouldn't mask in that situation, I'd quarantine. If I were knowingly exposed to Covid I'd quarantine until both time and testing determined I was not sick. Covid is undoubtedly serious and responsible people should take measures in cases where they are a genuine risk to others. But it is unscientific, immature, and stupid to simply assume people are a risk despite any evidence to the contrary.
CarelessExpert 5y ago
> No. I refuse. ... > I'm open to data. I'm open to discussion. These statements sure seem to be in conflict, so I'm genuinely curious: Are you, though? Open to discussion? You seem to have made up your mind. You've decided you won't believe "government leaders". You won't believe "policy makers". I'm going go ahead and guess, based on the tone of your comment, that you are similarly distrusting of information from the medical community. That would seem to rule out any and all potential sources of data that might demonstrate "the efficacy of the masks that are widely sold, used, and accepted" (e.g. https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 - "The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained."). So... are you really open to data and discussion? Or are you just saying that because it seems like the right thing to say? And no, I'm not trying to be a snide smart-ass. I'm trying to reveal what you're actually thinking and feeling. Because I'll be honest, I don't think what you've written here reflects your actual, deep-down feelings on the topic.
- trentnix 5y ago
  I'm going go ahead and guess, based on the tone of your comment, that you are similarly distrusting of information from the medical community. Tone? Your Hacker News clearly works in ways mine does not. I socialize with a number of physicians, surgeons, and medical professionals. I seek medical help and advice when I'm sick. I seek medical help and advice when my kids are sick. I pursued a vaccine expressly because those same medical professionals were vaccinated themselves. But I also don't believe a physician has some magical ability to discern truth that other intelligent people cannot. I also trust the science of the efficacy of masks people are wearing. I trust the science that examines how the way they wear their masks sabotages any utility they might provide. I trust the science that suggests there are negative psychological and sociological consequences to an entire society not able to see the faces of their peers. I trust the science that suggests, despite breakthrough cases, the vaccines don't have unmanageable side effects and work as intended. I trust the data that has revealed of 100 "breakthrough" Covid deaths in Massachusetts, the median age of those who died is 82.5 and ~75% had underlying issues. I trust the data that has revealed of the ~9000 who have died of Covid here in Texas since February, only 43 were vaccinated. I trust that masks and distancing have clearly had positive side effects to limit the spread of other illnesses, such as the flu. My children have all had RSV since society mostly opened back up but not before (talk to a pediatrician - it's particularly nasty this year and is spreading in the summer months unlike it has in memory). But I also trust my eyes that have seen states and communities with draconian lockdowns faring no better (or worse!) than states and communities that are largely open. Here in my community some schools required everyone to mask. Others, not at all. And neither fared measurably better or worse than the other. And given all that (and more), I've come to the conclusion that it is unlikely that masks make much of a difference. And above all else, I trust that you know better how to keep yourself and your family safe than I do. And vice-versa. Because I'll be honest, I don't think what you've written here reflects your actual, deep-down feelings on the topic. Careful everyone! We've got a mind reader, here! Seriously though, I know it's tough to resist the arrogant urge to compartmentalize all the wrongthinkers into stereotypes. But resist anyway, because it makes you seem like a condescending, dishonest, disingenuous investigator who is just building a strawman. Or are you just saying that because it seems like the right thing to say? Right thing to say? I don't even know what that means. I said what I genuinely believe. I've even attached my name to it. I've changed my mind on many subjects when presented evidence to the contrary - it's a useful skill when you solve problems for a living.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

goldenkey 5y ago

Vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent covid strains. Vaccinated people infected with delta have measurable viral loads similar to those who are unvaccinated and infected with the variant. They don't get as sick but spread the virus nearly as well as unvaccinated folks. The spreading rate is correlated with the mutation rate. A good mask, N95 or above, can prevent covid transmission and contraction. Cloth and surgical masks on the other hand are like trying to stop mosquitos with a chain link fence. People that have the vaccine and walk around indoor spaces without a mask are actually causing their own eventual demise, as they will be giving the virus hosts (themselves included), allowing the virus to mutate to its next more virulent form that vaccines have no chance against. I know it's painful to wear a good mask as you cannot show off your pretty face. Do it for your country, for Biden and for our hero Fauci. :-)

slumdev 5y ago
Vaccinated people must be required to wear masks to prevent the transmission of more virulent strains. Unvaccinated people, because they would be homebound (or killed) by the more virulent strains, must be allowed to go about their business maskless. This way, we'll achieve herd immunity by spreading less virulent strains around. Sort of like an airborne live attenuated vaccine.
- goldenkey 5y ago
  This sounds like a plan Fauci would come up with himself.

criticaltinker 5y ago

Question out of genuine curiosity - would you be willing to wear a mask if you happened to be infected again (ie wear a mask for some time after you were symptomatic and/or had a positive test)? IMO that's a situation that deserves masking, but perhaps the other rational you mentioned is a stronger factor in your decision.

trentnix 5y ago
I wouldn't mask in that situation, I'd quarantine. If I were knowingly exposed to Covid I'd quarantine until both time and testing determined I was not sick. Covid is undoubtedly serious and responsible people should take measures in cases where they are a genuine risk to others. But it is unscientific, immature, and stupid to simply assume people are a risk despite any evidence to the contrary.

CarelessExpert 5y ago

> No. I refuse. ... > I'm open to data. I'm open to discussion. These statements sure seem to be in conflict, so I'm genuinely curious: Are you, though? Open to discussion? You seem to have made up your mind. You've decided you won't believe "government leaders". You won't believe "policy makers". I'm going go ahead and guess, based on the tone of your comment, that you are similarly distrusting of information from the medical community. That would seem to rule out any and all potential sources of data that might demonstrate "the efficacy of the masks that are widely sold, used, and accepted" (e.g. https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 - "The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained."). So... are you really open to data and discussion? Or are you just saying that because it seems like the right thing to say? And no, I'm not trying to be a snide smart-ass. I'm trying to reveal what you're actually thinking and feeling. Because I'll be honest, I don't think what you've written here reflects your actual, deep-down feelings on the topic.

trentnix 5y ago
I'm going go ahead and guess, based on the tone of your comment, that you are similarly distrusting of information from the medical community. Tone? Your Hacker News clearly works in ways mine does not. I socialize with a number of physicians, surgeons, and medical professionals. I seek medical help and advice when I'm sick. I seek medical help and advice when my kids are sick. I pursued a vaccine expressly because those same medical professionals were vaccinated themselves. But I also don't believe a physician has some magical ability to discern truth that other intelligent people cannot. I also trust the science of the efficacy of masks people are wearing. I trust the science that examines how the way they wear their masks sabotages any utility they might provide. I trust the science that suggests there are negative psychological and sociological consequences to an entire society not able to see the faces of their peers. I trust the science that suggests, despite breakthrough cases, the vaccines don't have unmanageable side effects and work as intended. I trust the data that has revealed of 100 "breakthrough" Covid deaths in Massachusetts, the median age of those who died is 82.5 and ~75% had underlying issues. I trust the data that has revealed of the ~9000 who have died of Covid here in Texas since February, only 43 were vaccinated. I trust that masks and distancing have clearly had positive side effects to limit the spread of other illnesses, such as the flu. My children have all had RSV since society mostly opened back up but not before (talk to a pediatrician - it's particularly nasty this year and is spreading in the summer months unlike it has in memory). But I also trust my eyes that have seen states and communities with draconian lockdowns faring no better (or worse!) than states and communities that are largely open. Here in my community some schools required everyone to mask. Others, not at all. And neither fared measurably better or worse than the other. And given all that (and more), I've come to the conclusion that it is unlikely that masks make much of a difference. And above all else, I trust that you know better how to keep yourself and your family safe than I do. And vice-versa. Because I'll be honest, I don't think what you've written here reflects your actual, deep-down feelings on the topic. Careful everyone! We've got a mind reader, here! Seriously though, I know it's tough to resist the arrogant urge to compartmentalize all the wrongthinkers into stereotypes. But resist anyway, because it makes you seem like a condescending, dishonest, disingenuous investigator who is just building a strawman. Or are you just saying that because it seems like the right thing to say? Right thing to say? I don't even know what that means. I said what I genuinely believe. I've even attached my name to it. I've changed my mind on many subjects when presented evidence to the contrary - it's a useful skill when you solve problems for a living.