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This has absolutely nothing to do with socialism.

thegrimmest 5y ago
This has everything to do with socialism. Socialism is about trading individual liberty, power, and ability to consent for centrally-managed services provided with government authority. This is exactly what's happening here. The ease and comfort with which this trade is made speaks exactly to the trend GP was referring to.
- shigawire 5y ago
  Socialism is not about centralized authority. That is just how it ends up when you have oligarchs needing a better brand than naked kleptocracy.
  - thegrimmest 5y ago
    It's basically about surrendering individual power/consent to collective decision making, isn't it?
    - jq-r 5y ago
      That's actually called living in a civilization.
      - thegrimmest 5y ago
        Strong disagree. Living in a civilization means you have agreed to peacefully coexist with other members, and resolve disputes via due process. From there, whether you can opt out of military service or health insurance varies quite a bit within civilizations. This is where the question of "within your civilization, how free are you?" (vs. how obligated) starts to become relevant.
      - jokethrowaway 5y ago
        I disagree. Your statement is true only because in the present day socialist governments control most of the desirable space. The Vikings in the middle age moved to Iceland exactly to avoid kings and lords (not that far from our democracy) and they built a decentralised society which lasted 300 years. They had private courts and private law enforcement. Strategic decisions were happening at the local level with local leaders. I believe a decentralised society is possible - but there is just no interest in doing so and dismantling the status quo. First, you need money to get elected in a position where you can do that. Your sponsors will likely want something in return. If you throw away all the power after getting it and create a decentralised society, you won't be able to return any favour or reap any benefit. You may just as well become the next corrupted leader and get rich from the politics scam.

This has everything to do with socialism. Socialism is about trading individual liberty, power, and ability to consent for centrally-managed services provided with government authority. This is exactly what's happening here. The ease and comfort with which this trade is made speaks exactly to the trend GP was referring to.

shigawire 5y ago
Socialism is not about centralized authority. That is just how it ends up when you have oligarchs needing a better brand than naked kleptocracy.
- thegrimmest 5y ago
  It's basically about surrendering individual power/consent to collective decision making, isn't it?
  - jq-r 5y ago
    That's actually called living in a civilization.
    - thegrimmest 5y ago
      Strong disagree. Living in a civilization means you have agreed to peacefully coexist with other members, and resolve disputes via due process. From there, whether you can opt out of military service or health insurance varies quite a bit within civilizations. This is where the question of "within your civilization, how free are you?" (vs. how obligated) starts to become relevant.
    - jokethrowaway 5y ago
      I disagree. Your statement is true only because in the present day socialist governments control most of the desirable space. The Vikings in the middle age moved to Iceland exactly to avoid kings and lords (not that far from our democracy) and they built a decentralised society which lasted 300 years. They had private courts and private law enforcement. Strategic decisions were happening at the local level with local leaders. I believe a decentralised society is possible - but there is just no interest in doing so and dismantling the status quo. First, you need money to get elected in a position where you can do that. Your sponsors will likely want something in return. If you throw away all the power after getting it and create a decentralised society, you won't be able to return any favour or reap any benefit. You may just as well become the next corrupted leader and get rich from the politics scam.