4 ms·

Presumably they're referring to requirements for vaccinations to attend large public gatherings. I think it's an absurd hyperbole, myself.

the-dude 5y ago
> large public gatherings. In some counties it is much broader than that. Painting it as hyperbole sounds hollow if you are downplaying it yourself.
- petre 5y ago
  If the gathering is large enough they can't stop it and will back down. See the yellow vests movement.
  - the-dude 5y ago
    That only works for gatherings not associated with a legal entity. For example a sports club ( football? ) can't ignore the rules or it will be fined / closed.
    - petre 5y ago
      It depends. In France unoins will organize public gatherings and won't be fined or closed because they have real power to shut down a whole sector of the economy and the ability to negotiate with the government.
kristjank 5y ago
Is it really, though? Both child abuse and the pandemic are serious issues with real world victims, and both are riddled with privacy, anonymity and personal integrity issues. If we don't act against them, people will die/get hurt, and if we act against it in a Macchiavelian manner, democracy and quality of our life suffers enormously. My observation is that in the name of: a) Covid b) Counterterrorism c) Child abuse almost everything can be presented as justifiable, at least to the mainstream media. The burden of questioning the rulers' decisions remains on us, and the limitations of personal freedom, both digital and physical, set a dangerous precendent to anything that might happen in the future.
- aww_dang 5y ago
  The abuses rationalized by the War on Terror, such as mass surveillance and profiling haven't been walked back. Yet many somehow believe vaccine passports won't be similarly result in mission creep and abuse. More recently it has been suggested to expand the designation of terrorist to include those who have concerns about this process. When has government willingly returned liberties taken under emergency pretenses? Once Pandora's box is opened...
  - ForHackernews 5y ago
    > When has government willingly returned liberties taken under emergency pretenses? How about the dozens of times already since the start of this pandemic? Every time case rates drop even slightly, they've rushed to re-open businesses, eliminate mask rules and limitations on gatherings.
    - aww_dang 5y ago
      There have been some outliers like Florida's Ron DeSantis, but for the most part lockdowns have been on and off. The CDC now recommends masking for vaccinated individuals. Restrict, loosen restrictions and then tighten restrictions further. Repeat as necessary. Say what you will of some of the temporary restorations of freedom of movement, but they've normalized putting people on house arrest. The goal in my view appears to be getting people onboard with the vaccine passports. Once implemented it will be a stepping stone towards CBDC, UBI and social credit scores. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-23/digital-ids-for-digital-currencies-how-the-pandemic-may-speed-a-solution https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-23/digita...
- ForHackernews 5y ago
  Yes it's absolutely hyperbole to compare the racist policy of apartheid to reasonable restrictions on people who voluntarily choose to avoid vaccines for mostly-nonsense reasons. Do you also oppose driver's license restrictions? Or existing pre-covid vaccine requirements? I struggle to see how these new restrictions are so onerous.

the-dude 5y ago

> large public gatherings. In some counties it is much broader than that. Painting it as hyperbole sounds hollow if you are downplaying it yourself.

petre 5y ago
If the gathering is large enough they can't stop it and will back down. See the yellow vests movement.
- the-dude 5y ago
  That only works for gatherings not associated with a legal entity. For example a sports club ( football? ) can't ignore the rules or it will be fined / closed.
  - petre 5y ago
    It depends. In France unoins will organize public gatherings and won't be fined or closed because they have real power to shut down a whole sector of the economy and the ability to negotiate with the government.

kristjank 5y ago

Is it really, though? Both child abuse and the pandemic are serious issues with real world victims, and both are riddled with privacy, anonymity and personal integrity issues. If we don't act against them, people will die/get hurt, and if we act against it in a Macchiavelian manner, democracy and quality of our life suffers enormously. My observation is that in the name of: a) Covid b) Counterterrorism c) Child abuse almost everything can be presented as justifiable, at least to the mainstream media. The burden of questioning the rulers' decisions remains on us, and the limitations of personal freedom, both digital and physical, set a dangerous precendent to anything that might happen in the future.

aww_dang 5y ago
The abuses rationalized by the War on Terror, such as mass surveillance and profiling haven't been walked back. Yet many somehow believe vaccine passports won't be similarly result in mission creep and abuse. More recently it has been suggested to expand the designation of terrorist to include those who have concerns about this process. When has government willingly returned liberties taken under emergency pretenses? Once Pandora's box is opened...
- ForHackernews 5y ago
  > When has government willingly returned liberties taken under emergency pretenses? How about the dozens of times already since the start of this pandemic? Every time case rates drop even slightly, they've rushed to re-open businesses, eliminate mask rules and limitations on gatherings.
  - aww_dang 5y ago
    There have been some outliers like Florida's Ron DeSantis, but for the most part lockdowns have been on and off. The CDC now recommends masking for vaccinated individuals. Restrict, loosen restrictions and then tighten restrictions further. Repeat as necessary. Say what you will of some of the temporary restorations of freedom of movement, but they've normalized putting people on house arrest. The goal in my view appears to be getting people onboard with the vaccine passports. Once implemented it will be a stepping stone towards CBDC, UBI and social credit scores. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-23/digital-ids-for-digital-currencies-how-the-pandemic-may-speed-a-solution https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-23/digita...
ForHackernews 5y ago
Yes it's absolutely hyperbole to compare the racist policy of apartheid to reasonable restrictions on people who voluntarily choose to avoid vaccines for mostly-nonsense reasons. Do you also oppose driver's license restrictions? Or existing pre-covid vaccine requirements? I struggle to see how these new restrictions are so onerous.