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We have an infinite money printing machine. We don't need access to any capital. That's not what the carbon tax is about. We need to change behavior. We need ev

We have an infinite money printing machine. We don't need access to any capital. That's not what the carbon tax is about. We need to change behavior. We need everyone that uses carbon to pay for its use (including the externalities) so that they stop using it as much as they are. This is why poor people can't be exempt. This is why the rich can't just pay for it. We all need a massive increase in the cost of everything that touches carbon (read everything) so we start driving to the next city once per year instead of every weekend, so that we start eating a BLT once a month instead of twice a week (a lot of heart issues down here in the south for a reason), and the list goes on.

altdataseller 5y ago
Yeah, people should never say “we have no capital” when I see billions being used to buy bonds and prop up the stock market. It’s just ridiculous
- gruez 5y ago
  >when I see billions being used to buy bonds and prop up the stock market. It’s just ridiculous Because the former doesn't really cause inflation (it just sits on the bank's balance sheets), whereas printing money for infrastructure projects is.
guilhas 5y ago
Wow That's exactly what carbon tax is. Some companies will be exempt, others will be issuing "carbox tax loans". Only regular people will suffer with this Do you understand you're saying give even more money to the people that have been leading the world to its destruction, so they will make it better
snikeris 5y ago
> We need to change behavior. We need everyone that uses carbon to pay for its use (including the externalities) so that they stop using it as much as they are. This is why poor people can't be exempt. This is why the rich can't just pay for it. We all need a massive increase in the cost of everything that touches carbon (read everything) This is a pro-climate and anti-human policy. Do you care more about human beings or the amount of CO2 in the air? There are still billions of people who have no electricity. Let's get them closer to our standard of living before we make everything more expensive for them.
- rocgf 5y ago
  Well, guess you want both eternal exponential growth for everybody, as well as a healthy planet to live on, but without any sort of compromise whatsoever.
  - snikeris 5y ago
    A pro-human stance includes concern for the environment that humans live in. So I do want a healthy planet to live on. Making everything cost more for everyone...doesn't sound like much of a compromise
    - rocgf 5y ago
      I don't think you really understand what cost means in this case. Or a compromise. Thinking that cost just means paying more -> bad is a very simplistic way to look at things. Cost, especially via taxation, means setting aside a part of our productivity as a planet towards making sure we don't destroy ourselves. Everybody should contribute because everyone has skin in the game. By taxing CO2 specifically, you force people towards choosing more sustainable choices automatically. Understand that you can't have a completely free market and an environment in which you want to live.
      - snikeris 5y ago
        > an environment in which you want to live. The environment you are proposing is unlivable. When you are living on less than $2 a day, things costing more is a matter of life and death. Your fellow humans need more sources of reliable energy, not less.
hardtke 5y ago
A carbon tax is a non starter in democratic countries because we have seen over and over again that raising the price of motor fuel is political suicide. Canada had to back off on a program that offered a carbon tax back as a rebate. Similar outcome in France with Yellow vest protest movement. Many countries have tried to get rid of fuel subsidies only to spark middle class street protests. In the US the main election issue in 2022 will be "inflation" which for many voters is the price of gas. Carbon taxes simply do not work in the real world.

altdataseller 5y ago

Yeah, people should never say “we have no capital” when I see billions being used to buy bonds and prop up the stock market. It’s just ridiculous

gruez 5y ago
>when I see billions being used to buy bonds and prop up the stock market. It’s just ridiculous Because the former doesn't really cause inflation (it just sits on the bank's balance sheets), whereas printing money for infrastructure projects is.

guilhas 5y ago

Wow That's exactly what carbon tax is. Some companies will be exempt, others will be issuing "carbox tax loans". Only regular people will suffer with this Do you understand you're saying give even more money to the people that have been leading the world to its destruction, so they will make it better

snikeris 5y ago

> We need to change behavior. We need everyone that uses carbon to pay for its use (including the externalities) so that they stop using it as much as they are. This is why poor people can't be exempt. This is why the rich can't just pay for it. We all need a massive increase in the cost of everything that touches carbon (read everything) This is a pro-climate and anti-human policy. Do you care more about human beings or the amount of CO2 in the air? There are still billions of people who have no electricity. Let's get them closer to our standard of living before we make everything more expensive for them.

rocgf 5y ago
Well, guess you want both eternal exponential growth for everybody, as well as a healthy planet to live on, but without any sort of compromise whatsoever.
- snikeris 5y ago
  A pro-human stance includes concern for the environment that humans live in. So I do want a healthy planet to live on. Making everything cost more for everyone...doesn't sound like much of a compromise
  - rocgf 5y ago
    I don't think you really understand what cost means in this case. Or a compromise. Thinking that cost just means paying more -> bad is a very simplistic way to look at things. Cost, especially via taxation, means setting aside a part of our productivity as a planet towards making sure we don't destroy ourselves. Everybody should contribute because everyone has skin in the game. By taxing CO2 specifically, you force people towards choosing more sustainable choices automatically. Understand that you can't have a completely free market and an environment in which you want to live.
    - snikeris 5y ago
      > an environment in which you want to live. The environment you are proposing is unlivable. When you are living on less than $2 a day, things costing more is a matter of life and death. Your fellow humans need more sources of reliable energy, not less.

hardtke 5y ago

A carbon tax is a non starter in democratic countries because we have seen over and over again that raising the price of motor fuel is political suicide. Canada had to back off on a program that offered a carbon tax back as a rebate. Similar outcome in France with Yellow vest protest movement. Many countries have tried to get rid of fuel subsidies only to spark middle class street protests. In the US the main election issue in 2022 will be "inflation" which for many voters is the price of gas. Carbon taxes simply do not work in the real world.