5 ms·

Also buy higher quality products, ideally used instead of cheaper products new. Repairing instead of throwing away. Avoiding unnecessary consumption, choosing

Also buy higher quality products, ideally used instead of cheaper products new. Repairing instead of throwing away. Avoiding unnecessary consumption, choosing what I prioritize. Edit, another: Thinking smart wrt transport, haven't used car to get to work since maybe 10 years ago.

mschuster91 5y ago
> Edit, another: Thinking smart wrt transport, haven't used car to get to work since maybe 10 years ago. The problem is, outside of urban areas there simply is no alternative to owning a car because public transport has never been built or torn down.
- skinkestek 5y ago
  Speak for yourself and your country. I live in the countryside in Norway - a famously long and sparsely populated country - and I either work close enough to home to go by bike or I work far enough away that I can manage to pick up my laptop and get some work done while in public transit. And yes: I get to the train station by bike, bus or by feet, if necessary it is just 30 minutes brisk walk. Edit: not every Norwegian can do this, but far more than today. I guess this is true for a number of other countries as well.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  there simply is no alternative That's what my neighbours tell me when they see me shopping on my bike.
  - garden_hermit 5y ago
    I'm curious what kind of town you live in. I grew up in a rural area, in which google claims its a 50 minute bike ride to the nearest grocery store, along curvy & hilly country roads with absolutely no sidewalks, let alone bike lanes, and where monstrous pickup trucks are liable to sideswipe you out of spite as much as accident. My sister lives in a suburb in Florida: better, but the weather is unbearable for half the year. She also has three children, making carrying sufficient groceries in a bike pretty much impossible. If people can bike, they should. But a lot of people live in these sorts of conditions that are not conducive to biking, enough that "just bike to the grocery store" is not a realistic or achievable goal.
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      All I hear is excuses. Excuses why someone "needs" to drive a 2 ton truck, excuses why someone "needs" to fly across the Atlantic, excuses why someone "needs" a house with more bathrooms than people, excuses why it's too cold/hot to cycle. To be honest I'm a bit fed up with hearing it.
      - garden_hermit 5y ago
        I'm not talking about buying a 2 ton truck or flying across the Atlantic, or owning a big house. I'm talking about people needing to get groceries. I would prefer that infrastructure in the U.S. were more dense, that less people were not required to drive everywhere. But the reality is that, as life in many parts of the U.S. is currently set up, people cannot rely on bicycling as a safe, efficient, and effective means of transportation in their daily lives. Biking, if you live in a place that supports it, is good, but telling people to "just bike" remains a useless and naive plan for addressing climate change. Your energy will be better spent elsewhere.
    - aww_dang 5y ago
      If you had to make that ride to eat, you would. If you did it regularly you wouldn't think anything of it. I have a hard time believing motorists are out there hitting cyclists out of spite. People enjoy cycling on country roads with hills and no bike lanes. Some also enjoy cycling in all weather conditions. If you haven't tried it, it is a bit much to call it impossible. That said, I think people should be able to consume energy however they choose, even drivers of "monstrous pickup trucks". If it makes them happy or they otherwise find utility in it, it is their money to spend.
      - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
        >That said, I think people should be able to consume energy however they choose, even drivers of "monstrous pickup trucks". Without concern for the externalities?
        5y ago
- qeternity 5y ago
  As an American expat, I know what you mean, but the problem is this simply isn’t true. Americans think this way because they have never seen an alternative. What it does mean is that the cost of consumption goes way up, which is exactly what’s needed.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    The problem is, you simply cannot tell people to drop their cars when there is no public transport. No matter the country. If you want to change the behavior of people, you have to build out public transport and bike lanes first or you'll (and it ashames me to say it as a leftie, rightfully) get laughed out of the door.
- jiri 5y ago
  Yes. Also, in my country, there are alternatives, but it is so much faster and time efficient to use car. I would gladly used any alternative that would not cost me additional time than car.

mschuster91 5y ago

> Edit, another: Thinking smart wrt transport, haven't used car to get to work since maybe 10 years ago. The problem is, outside of urban areas there simply is no alternative to owning a car because public transport has never been built or torn down.

skinkestek 5y ago
Speak for yourself and your country. I live in the countryside in Norway - a famously long and sparsely populated country - and I either work close enough to home to go by bike or I work far enough away that I can manage to pick up my laptop and get some work done while in public transit. And yes: I get to the train station by bike, bus or by feet, if necessary it is just 30 minutes brisk walk. Edit: not every Norwegian can do this, but far more than today. I guess this is true for a number of other countries as well.
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
there simply is no alternative That's what my neighbours tell me when they see me shopping on my bike.
- garden_hermit 5y ago
  I'm curious what kind of town you live in. I grew up in a rural area, in which google claims its a 50 minute bike ride to the nearest grocery store, along curvy & hilly country roads with absolutely no sidewalks, let alone bike lanes, and where monstrous pickup trucks are liable to sideswipe you out of spite as much as accident. My sister lives in a suburb in Florida: better, but the weather is unbearable for half the year. She also has three children, making carrying sufficient groceries in a bike pretty much impossible. If people can bike, they should. But a lot of people live in these sorts of conditions that are not conducive to biking, enough that "just bike to the grocery store" is not a realistic or achievable goal.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    All I hear is excuses. Excuses why someone "needs" to drive a 2 ton truck, excuses why someone "needs" to fly across the Atlantic, excuses why someone "needs" a house with more bathrooms than people, excuses why it's too cold/hot to cycle. To be honest I'm a bit fed up with hearing it.
    - garden_hermit 5y ago
      I'm not talking about buying a 2 ton truck or flying across the Atlantic, or owning a big house. I'm talking about people needing to get groceries. I would prefer that infrastructure in the U.S. were more dense, that less people were not required to drive everywhere. But the reality is that, as life in many parts of the U.S. is currently set up, people cannot rely on bicycling as a safe, efficient, and effective means of transportation in their daily lives. Biking, if you live in a place that supports it, is good, but telling people to "just bike" remains a useless and naive plan for addressing climate change. Your energy will be better spent elsewhere.
  - aww_dang 5y ago
    If you had to make that ride to eat, you would. If you did it regularly you wouldn't think anything of it. I have a hard time believing motorists are out there hitting cyclists out of spite. People enjoy cycling on country roads with hills and no bike lanes. Some also enjoy cycling in all weather conditions. If you haven't tried it, it is a bit much to call it impossible. That said, I think people should be able to consume energy however they choose, even drivers of "monstrous pickup trucks". If it makes them happy or they otherwise find utility in it, it is their money to spend.
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      >That said, I think people should be able to consume energy however they choose, even drivers of "monstrous pickup trucks". Without concern for the externalities?
      - 5y ago
qeternity 5y ago
As an American expat, I know what you mean, but the problem is this simply isn’t true. Americans think this way because they have never seen an alternative. What it does mean is that the cost of consumption goes way up, which is exactly what’s needed.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  The problem is, you simply cannot tell people to drop their cars when there is no public transport. No matter the country. If you want to change the behavior of people, you have to build out public transport and bike lanes first or you'll (and it ashames me to say it as a leftie, rightfully) get laughed out of the door.
jiri 5y ago
Yes. Also, in my country, there are alternatives, but it is so much faster and time efficient to use car. I would gladly used any alternative that would not cost me additional time than car.