5 ms·

I believe this debate is absolutely pointless. There are people who work better in the office and there are people who work better from home (or just as well).

I believe this debate is absolutely pointless. There are people who work better in the office and there are people who work better from home (or just as well). There are companies who are willing to offer remote work option and those that aren't. Rather than trying to change someone (employees or companies) simply pick the counter part that matches your preference. There are great and shitty companies/employees that have totally different views on the subject. Trying to prove one is better than the other is akin to saying that flying is better than swimming and birds are superior to fish. You don't want to go back to the office? Great, this option is finally available to many/most people in IT. I love working from my office. I sit with 2 other people in the room that used to have 20 employees and having a total blast. I absolutely disliked working from home (wife and two kids), but that's me. There's no right or wrong here.

cblconfederate 5y ago
The debate is not pointless. The right to work from wherever you want is a 21st century worker's right that (i would expect) workers would support unequivocably. Of course some people won't choose it, but the option should be there
- blowski 5y ago
  There is no fundamental "human right" to work from home. An employer has the "right" to ask you to work from their office in exchange for money. You have the right to accept or decline their offer.
  - JackPoach 5y ago
    Moreover there's no 'right to work from office' either. Nor should there be. Economics doesn't work this way.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    There were no right to 8 hour work or paid leave, or paternity leave, until there were. work rights are not fundamental (as in, 'natural'), they are granted by worker's protection laws and they havent changed much in decades. Combined with climate action, i don't see why legislators shouldn't nudge businesses to switch to work from wherever
    - blowski 5y ago
      So you're saying the government should pass a law to make it a right?
      - cblconfederate 5y ago
        over time as it becomes increasingly popular, workers will demand from legislators to make it happen. who am i to demand what government should do
        JackPoach 5y ago
        Yeah, but is working from home really a 'right' akin to 8 hour day or a 'perk' similar to office dinners or sabbaticals or corporate Christmas parties?
        cblconfederate 5y ago
        Yes it is, as it enables whole classes of people who have the ability to join the workforce, e.g. disabled people, or busy mothers , or people who simply can't move to the bay area . Those perks you talk about are not an option for the vaast majority of workers outside a few cities aroudn the globe
        blowski 5y ago
        It also excludes (to some degree) those who cannot afford a dedicated, quiet office with fast internet at home.
        cblconfederate 5y ago
        theoretically, "cannot afford" is impossible when remote work is abundant. After all what confines people to that tiny apartment was the physical requirements of their (or their parents') workplace. It certanily doesnt exclude anyone, it slightly inconveniences them, in return for greatly improving the lives of many more.
- JackPoach 5y ago
  Sorry, but you can't make up 'rights' as you go. When did remote work became a right and why? I too can make up 'rights' that I'd like to have. For instance, I'd like to to be the 21st century right for every employee to get 50% of the company profit IN ADDITION to their salary. Why? Because I think it's a right. After all, don't employees drive company profits? Shouldn't they be compensated properly? I sure would. It's very easy to claim that salary alone is not enough and only profit-sharing is fair (BTW, there are companies that work this way - and this is great). If you think that your argument is correct, turn in the other way around. Let's say you are a consumer of goods and services. You want education? Great - no more face to face learning in the lecture room. Only Zoom and video. Why? Because it's teachers right. Lawyers and doctors - no office visits, unless it's emergency. Why? They have the right to work from home too. Shopping? Online orders only man. It's the right. Would you want to live in the world that works this way? Probably not.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    sure you can make up rights, most of them will be rejected, but if society at large likes them they 'll become permanent. Remote work increases the freedom of the individual, is beneficial to the environment, has negligible-or-positive effect to economic output. It's hard to make a case against it, especially since it doesn't violate anybody else's rights (the "remote" location can be the office) In fact legislators don't need to enforce anything yet, but they need to make remote work more feasible. Things like, don't require physical headquarters or physical paperwork and inspections, don't tie any kind of taxation/social security etc to physical locations, facilitate faster switching of jobs etc.
scotty79 5y ago
Except that people don't like to quit their job and look for another one. So your solution only works if companies fire their employees on the spot when they void non-mwtching preference. But companies don't like to fire their employees either because there are ongoing projects and "bus number" is not high enough. Hence the struggle.
- JackPoach 5y ago
  Yeah, but how is it different from any other human interaction? Let's say you have a partner and you have a kink that makes you happy. But your partner doesn't share this kink with you, they aren't into it. What should you do? Should you force your partner into the kink so that you are happy? Or should you simply find others who share the kink with you and make yourself and others happy? You can't live your life thinking 'everyone but me should change to fit my desires'. With so many remote work options out there if it's deal breaker for you, it's easy to find work with another company or work for yourself. But yeah, you are correct - you lose a lot when you do that too. If your employer is great and your co-workers are awesome you can get remote work that you so desire but your new company and people might totally suck.
  - scotty79 5y ago
    First you just talk about the subject openly to determine who has how much flexibility and if you can compromise and where. Only when you reach the conclusion that you can reach compromise acceptable to both sides you say your goodbyes.
    - JackPoach 5y ago
      Yep. So basically the same approach can/should be used here too.
- hellisothers 5y ago
  I agree with Jack here, how is this different from any other point of tension between employer and employee? Should there be a fucknotgettingfreelunch.com too? It feels like this particular issue is about entitlement, I even know people who are upset there is no more office and feel entitled to a business providing office space (which actually makes slightly more sense but still).

cblconfederate 5y ago

The debate is not pointless. The right to work from wherever you want is a 21st century worker's right that (i would expect) workers would support unequivocably. Of course some people won't choose it, but the option should be there

blowski 5y ago
There is no fundamental "human right" to work from home. An employer has the "right" to ask you to work from their office in exchange for money. You have the right to accept or decline their offer.
- JackPoach 5y ago
  Moreover there's no 'right to work from office' either. Nor should there be. Economics doesn't work this way.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  There were no right to 8 hour work or paid leave, or paternity leave, until there were. work rights are not fundamental (as in, 'natural'), they are granted by worker's protection laws and they havent changed much in decades. Combined with climate action, i don't see why legislators shouldn't nudge businesses to switch to work from wherever
  - blowski 5y ago
    So you're saying the government should pass a law to make it a right?
    - cblconfederate 5y ago
      over time as it becomes increasingly popular, workers will demand from legislators to make it happen. who am i to demand what government should do
      - JackPoach 5y ago
        Yeah, but is working from home really a 'right' akin to 8 hour day or a 'perk' similar to office dinners or sabbaticals or corporate Christmas parties?
        cblconfederate 5y ago
        Yes it is, as it enables whole classes of people who have the ability to join the workforce, e.g. disabled people, or busy mothers , or people who simply can't move to the bay area . Those perks you talk about are not an option for the vaast majority of workers outside a few cities aroudn the globe
        blowski 5y ago
        It also excludes (to some degree) those who cannot afford a dedicated, quiet office with fast internet at home.
        cblconfederate 5y ago
        theoretically, "cannot afford" is impossible when remote work is abundant. After all what confines people to that tiny apartment was the physical requirements of their (or their parents') workplace. It certanily doesnt exclude anyone, it slightly inconveniences them, in return for greatly improving the lives of many more.
JackPoach 5y ago
Sorry, but you can't make up 'rights' as you go. When did remote work became a right and why? I too can make up 'rights' that I'd like to have. For instance, I'd like to to be the 21st century right for every employee to get 50% of the company profit IN ADDITION to their salary. Why? Because I think it's a right. After all, don't employees drive company profits? Shouldn't they be compensated properly? I sure would. It's very easy to claim that salary alone is not enough and only profit-sharing is fair (BTW, there are companies that work this way - and this is great). If you think that your argument is correct, turn in the other way around. Let's say you are a consumer of goods and services. You want education? Great - no more face to face learning in the lecture room. Only Zoom and video. Why? Because it's teachers right. Lawyers and doctors - no office visits, unless it's emergency. Why? They have the right to work from home too. Shopping? Online orders only man. It's the right. Would you want to live in the world that works this way? Probably not.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  sure you can make up rights, most of them will be rejected, but if society at large likes them they 'll become permanent. Remote work increases the freedom of the individual, is beneficial to the environment, has negligible-or-positive effect to economic output. It's hard to make a case against it, especially since it doesn't violate anybody else's rights (the "remote" location can be the office) In fact legislators don't need to enforce anything yet, but they need to make remote work more feasible. Things like, don't require physical headquarters or physical paperwork and inspections, don't tie any kind of taxation/social security etc to physical locations, facilitate faster switching of jobs etc.

scotty79 5y ago

Except that people don't like to quit their job and look for another one. So your solution only works if companies fire their employees on the spot when they void non-mwtching preference. But companies don't like to fire their employees either because there are ongoing projects and "bus number" is not high enough. Hence the struggle.

JackPoach 5y ago
Yeah, but how is it different from any other human interaction? Let's say you have a partner and you have a kink that makes you happy. But your partner doesn't share this kink with you, they aren't into it. What should you do? Should you force your partner into the kink so that you are happy? Or should you simply find others who share the kink with you and make yourself and others happy? You can't live your life thinking 'everyone but me should change to fit my desires'. With so many remote work options out there if it's deal breaker for you, it's easy to find work with another company or work for yourself. But yeah, you are correct - you lose a lot when you do that too. If your employer is great and your co-workers are awesome you can get remote work that you so desire but your new company and people might totally suck.
- scotty79 5y ago
  First you just talk about the subject openly to determine who has how much flexibility and if you can compromise and where. Only when you reach the conclusion that you can reach compromise acceptable to both sides you say your goodbyes.
  - JackPoach 5y ago
    Yep. So basically the same approach can/should be used here too.
hellisothers 5y ago
I agree with Jack here, how is this different from any other point of tension between employer and employee? Should there be a fucknotgettingfreelunch.com too? It feels like this particular issue is about entitlement, I even know people who are upset there is no more office and feel entitled to a business providing office space (which actually makes slightly more sense but still).