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OK, you're trying to refute my assertions by interpreting my comments as (a) portraying these acts as having been dominant on MTV from the start, and (b) dismis

OK, you're trying to refute my assertions by interpreting my comments as (a) portraying these acts as having been dominant on MTV from the start, and (b) dismissing US acts like Van Halen as being behind and bad at video, and suggesting that there were zero US acts making concept videos then. I'm doing neither, and I'm certainly not dissing Van Halen, or performance videos! I'd only point out that Van Halen's videos in 1981 for So This Is Love [1] and Unchained [2] were very basic compared to the ones they started making from 1982 and particularly from 1984, after MTV got up and running. But I'm not making value judgements about any of it, I'm just commenting on an interesting thing that was going on in Australia in the years before MTV started. What I'm really pointing out is that these emerging Australian/NZ acts only got any MTV airplay at all because they were already quite adept in the art of music video, and were well positioned to take advantage of this new platform, which is surprising for a region so small, remote, and not normally known for cultural innovation. In the case of Split Enz, they are in the very video we're talking about – twice. They were the 10th act ever played on MTV. They wouldn't have been there if they didn't have good videos already made. Several of their later videos also earned airplay on MTV, and their successor band Crowded House built on this to achieve some major US chart success in 86-87. Re. Men at Work, their profile on Allmusic states "Their funny, irreverent videos became MTV favorites, helping send "Who Can It Be Now?" and "Down Under" to number one." INXS may not have seemed very visible on MTV in the early days to you (I assume you're basing these arguments on your own recollections), but they were absolutely there, and there's a direct path from their first appearances in 82-83 to the huge success of Kick a few years later. Of 1982/3's The One Thing, Wikipedia [3] (sourced from their 2005 autobiography) says "The music video was their first video to air on the fledgling MTV and went into high rotation on the channel, which added to the chart success of the single in the US." (That track made it to #30 in the Billboard Hot 100 and #2 on Billboard Top Tracks). If you use Google Books to search for "MTV" in that autobiography [4], you can read how their management was very deliberate and strategic in leveraging their existing repertoire of music videos to get on MTV soon after it launched, to tour the US extensively off the back of the profile they were building via MTV, and ride that all the way to the top with Kick only four years later. I'm not insisting that INXS's early videos are masterpieces - clearly they're not. But they were a continuation of a trend that had been building in Australia since 1974, and the band was surrounded by people who understood the format and the industry trends very well by then, so when MTV arrived they were good to go. But also, from reading about Countdown [5] now, I'm reminded it wasn't just about AU/NZ acts getting their start. Countdown was a platform where several US/European acts found early success, leading to later signings and/or chart success in the bigger markets. Blondie, Abba, Meatloaf, John Mellencamp and Bob Scaggs are some of the acts that found success in Australia earlier than elsewhere, thanks to Countdown, and presumably it helped at least some of them learn about the music video medium earlier than others. Talking Heads appeared live on Countdown in 1981, and Once In a Lifetime charted much better in Australia than in the US. Indeed, one of Van Halen's first ever TV interviews was for Countdown, filmed in London in 1978 [6]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfxG7BRn7xs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfxG7BRn7xs [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojNrj-sWfpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojNrj-sWfpk [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_One_Thing_(song) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_One_Thing_(song) [4] https://books.google.com.au/books?redir_esc=y&id=MxTMEwwCIK8C&q=MTV#v=snippet&q=MTV&f=false https://books.google.com.au/books?redir_esc=y&id=MxTMEwwCIK8... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countdown_(Australian_TV_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countdown_(Australian_TV_progr... [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ymyADifQtA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ymyADifQtA

listenallyall 5y ago
Your best argument would have been to point out that Video Killed The Radio Star, Bette Davis Eyes, Young Turks, Total Eclipse of the Heart, Gypsy, Hungry Like The Wolf and Rio -- all very early MTV hits -- were all directed by Australian Russell Mulcahy. > sourced from their 2005 autobiography you do realize, right, that you can't accept the band's own authorized biography (i.e. propaganda) as a reliable source for how popular or successful they were? > OK, you're trying to refute my assertions by interpreting my comments as (a) and (b) No, no, no. I'm not interpreting, I'm not twisting, or inferring. You stated that Aussies were "uniquely well-prepared." You said that. UNIQUELY. You ARE saying that Australians were ready while others were not -- that's what "uniquely" means, literally. You also said "most videos were just of the group on a studio stage," which isn't remotely true. Lastly, I call myself out for being petty and pedantic. Arguing the merits of this band or that band is ultimately futile, as is getting in a debate about something meant to entertain. But given the origins of my username, there's a certain obligation to set the facts straight here :)
- tomhoward 5y ago
  For the record: - That's not what I meant by uniquely. By unique I was referring to Countdown, which was unique for its format, its popularity, and for its influence, which is why several of the world's biggest acts since the 70s-80s hold Countdown in such affection, and regard its host Molly Meldrum as a pioneer and a friend. Nobody else has mentioned any primetime shows that played a lot of music video clips, in the US or anywhere else in the world, any where near as early as Countdown. The earliest I can find in the US is Video Concert Hall from 1978/9, but that didn't seem to have great prominence. The Wikipedia page on Music Video [1], in the section "1974–1980: Beginnings of music television" names Countdown and its rival show, Sounds, in the very first sentence. (I wasn't thinking of Sounds as I'm not old enough to remember it well and it's not as widely reminisced about here, but it was part of the same ecosystem). You helpfully mention Russell Mulcahy - who got his start producing music videos for Sounds. So the very first song ever played on MTV has a direct link back to the music shows that started in Australia in 1974. None of this is to say that no other acts in the world were at all well-prepared, obviously. It was just a different kind of preparation. And yep it's boring/lame to fixate on a strict definition of single word used in an obviously hand-wavy comment at the start of the thread, but that notwithstanding, it's clearly an incorrect interpretation of what I meant, particularly given my later comments. - We're at the point of debating the interpretation of the word "most", which is a sure sign it's time to walk away, but another commenter made the effort to go through the first twelve clips in this MTV video to compare styles and artist origins [2]. I have no problem conceding that UK acts were also doing more artistic video work, due to Top of the Pops running a long time, even if most of that program's content was live performances. - INXS's Billboard hits from 1983 and 1985/86 are there for us all to see in the historical records [3]. But it's "propaganda" for the band to recount that airplay on MTV helped them get there? OK then. Let's hear from Alan Hunter [4], who was an MTV VJ at the time: 'Beginning in 1982, he recalls VJs “being called into meetings with executives, who told us there was an arrangement between Atlantic and the network. We were going to see if MTV could break a band.” INXS, he says, served as a guinea pig, and indeed, heavy video rotation of its debut U.S. single, “The One Thing,” in 1983, helped drive the song to No. 30 on the Hot 100.' Finally, I have learned a huge amount from this discussion, so thanks for your part in that. And you should look up some videos of Countdown on YouTube. It really was awesome :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_video https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_video [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28111528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28111528 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INXS_discography#Singles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INXS_discography#Singles [4] https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/magazine-feature/8005714/inxs-unlikely-rule-80s-kick-interview https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/magazine-feature/800...

listenallyall 5y ago

Your best argument would have been to point out that Video Killed The Radio Star, Bette Davis Eyes, Young Turks, Total Eclipse of the Heart, Gypsy, Hungry Like The Wolf and Rio -- all very early MTV hits -- were all directed by Australian Russell Mulcahy. > sourced from their 2005 autobiography you do realize, right, that you can't accept the band's own authorized biography (i.e. propaganda) as a reliable source for how popular or successful they were? > OK, you're trying to refute my assertions by interpreting my comments as (a) and (b) No, no, no. I'm not interpreting, I'm not twisting, or inferring. You stated that Aussies were "uniquely well-prepared." You said that. UNIQUELY. You ARE saying that Australians were ready while others were not -- that's what "uniquely" means, literally. You also said "most videos were just of the group on a studio stage," which isn't remotely true. Lastly, I call myself out for being petty and pedantic. Arguing the merits of this band or that band is ultimately futile, as is getting in a debate about something meant to entertain. But given the origins of my username, there's a certain obligation to set the facts straight here :)

tomhoward 5y ago
For the record: - That's not what I meant by uniquely. By unique I was referring to Countdown, which was unique for its format, its popularity, and for its influence, which is why several of the world's biggest acts since the 70s-80s hold Countdown in such affection, and regard its host Molly Meldrum as a pioneer and a friend. Nobody else has mentioned any primetime shows that played a lot of music video clips, in the US or anywhere else in the world, any where near as early as Countdown. The earliest I can find in the US is Video Concert Hall from 1978/9, but that didn't seem to have great prominence. The Wikipedia page on Music Video [1], in the section "1974–1980: Beginnings of music television" names Countdown and its rival show, Sounds, in the very first sentence. (I wasn't thinking of Sounds as I'm not old enough to remember it well and it's not as widely reminisced about here, but it was part of the same ecosystem). You helpfully mention Russell Mulcahy - who got his start producing music videos for Sounds. So the very first song ever played on MTV has a direct link back to the music shows that started in Australia in 1974. None of this is to say that no other acts in the world were at all well-prepared, obviously. It was just a different kind of preparation. And yep it's boring/lame to fixate on a strict definition of single word used in an obviously hand-wavy comment at the start of the thread, but that notwithstanding, it's clearly an incorrect interpretation of what I meant, particularly given my later comments. - We're at the point of debating the interpretation of the word "most", which is a sure sign it's time to walk away, but another commenter made the effort to go through the first twelve clips in this MTV video to compare styles and artist origins [2]. I have no problem conceding that UK acts were also doing more artistic video work, due to Top of the Pops running a long time, even if most of that program's content was live performances. - INXS's Billboard hits from 1983 and 1985/86 are there for us all to see in the historical records [3]. But it's "propaganda" for the band to recount that airplay on MTV helped them get there? OK then. Let's hear from Alan Hunter [4], who was an MTV VJ at the time: 'Beginning in 1982, he recalls VJs “being called into meetings with executives, who told us there was an arrangement between Atlantic and the network. We were going to see if MTV could break a band.” INXS, he says, served as a guinea pig, and indeed, heavy video rotation of its debut U.S. single, “The One Thing,” in 1983, helped drive the song to No. 30 on the Hot 100.' Finally, I have learned a huge amount from this discussion, so thanks for your part in that. And you should look up some videos of Countdown on YouTube. It really was awesome :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_video https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_video [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28111528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28111528 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INXS_discography#Singles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INXS_discography#Singles [4] https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/magazine-feature/8005714/inxs-unlikely-rule-80s-kick-interview https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/magazine-feature/800...