7 ms·

Fuck Going Back to the Office

• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• zlib 5y ago
  It is beautiful
• mypastself 5y ago
  Hmmm, I can’t seem to find the option for “an employer should be able to control every petty aspect of one's life”. I’m beginning to think that was a leading question.
• JackPoach 5y ago
  I believe this debate is absolutely pointless. There are people who work better in the office and there are people who work better from home (or just as well). There are companies who are willing to offer remote work option and those that aren't. Rather than trying to change someone (employees or companies) simply pick the counter part that matches your preference. There are great and shitty companies/employees that have totally different views on the subject. Trying to prove one is better than the other is akin to saying that flying is better than swimming and birds are superior to fish. You don't want to go back to the office? Great, this option is finally available to many/most people in IT. I love working from my office. I sit with 2 other people in the room that used to have 20 employees and having a total blast. I absolutely disliked working from home (wife and two kids), but that's me. There's no right or wrong here.
  • cblconfederate 5y ago
    The debate is not pointless. The right to work from wherever you want is a 21st century worker's right that (i would expect) workers would support unequivocably. Of course some people won't choose it, but the option should be there
    • blowski 5y ago
      There is no fundamental "human right" to work from home. An employer has the "right" to ask you to work from their office in exchange for money. You have the right to accept or decline their offer.
      • JackPoach 5y ago
        Moreover there's no 'right to work from office' either. Nor should there be. Economics doesn't work this way.
      • cblconfederate 5y ago
        There were no right to 8 hour work or paid leave, or paternity leave, until there were. work rights are not fundamental (as in, 'natural'), they are granted by worker's protection laws and they havent changed much in decades. Combined with climate action, i don't see why legislators shouldn't nudge businesses to switch to work from wherever
        • blowski 5y ago
          So you're saying the government should pass a law to make it a right?
          • cblconfederate 5y ago
            over time as it becomes increasingly popular, workers will demand from legislators to make it happen. who am i to demand what government should do
            • JackPoach 5y ago
              Yeah, but is working from home really a 'right' akin to 8 hour day or a 'perk' similar to office dinners or sabbaticals or corporate Christmas parties?
              • 5y ago
  • scotty79 5y ago
    Except that people don't like to quit their job and look for another one. So your solution only works if companies fire their employees on the spot when they void non-mwtching preference. But companies don't like to fire their employees either because there are ongoing projects and "bus number" is not high enough. Hence the struggle.
    • JackPoach 5y ago
      Yeah, but how is it different from any other human interaction? Let's say you have a partner and you have a kink that makes you happy. But your partner doesn't share this kink with you, they aren't into it. What should you do? Should you force your partner into the kink so that you are happy? Or should you simply find others who share the kink with you and make yourself and others happy? You can't live your life thinking 'everyone but me should change to fit my desires'. With so many remote work options out there if it's deal breaker for you, it's easy to find work with another company or work for yourself. But yeah, you are correct - you lose a lot when you do that too. If your employer is great and your co-workers are awesome you can get remote work that you so desire but your new company and people might totally suck.
      • scotty79 5y ago
        First you just talk about the subject openly to determine who has how much flexibility and if you can compromise and where. Only when you reach the conclusion that you can reach compromise acceptable to both sides you say your goodbyes.
        • JackPoach 5y ago
          Yep. So basically the same approach can/should be used here too.
    • hellisothers 5y ago
      I agree with Jack here, how is this different from any other point of tension between employer and employee? Should there be a fucknotgettingfreelunch.com too? It feels like this particular issue is about entitlement, I even know people who are upset there is no more office and feel entitled to a business providing office space (which actually makes slightly more sense but still).
• shantnutiwari 5y ago
  While I agree with the feeling, most people voting on this will be ones who agree with the sentiment. Also, there is no button to say "Whaaat... I love office!" Or similar Also, that 90s Geocities vibe.....
• p4bl0 5y ago
  I understand that people can be fed up with their employers and/or commute, and that they see remote working as a solution. However I also worry a lot about two aspects of remote working: 1- Employers will want to increase surveillance at home at the expanse of even more privacy. 2- The significantly increased difficulty for workers to organize without meeting regularly in person.
  • Xevi 5y ago
    1. There is no need for an employer to surveil you if you do your job. The results will speak for themselves. If your employer can't trust their own employees, and wants to surveil them at home, try finding a better employer, because that's fucked up. 2. I've worked from home for 1.5 years now that this has not been a problem at all. I'd say it's quite the opposite. Just schedule a meeting online. It's not any harder than scheduling a meeting in an office.
    • akmarinov 5y ago
      I would argue that async collaboration is better as there’s a “paper” trail of how decisions were reached, instead of some words that were said in a meeting somewhere, which is a huge boon for newcomers.
    • p4bl0 5y ago
      1- No everybody is in a position to do that and many companies are rather shitty on this kind of things. You can't just dismiss those facts by thinking wishfully. 2- Scheduling meetings online can work for people who are already engaged are motivated enough. But that's really not efficient to organize other people, or to be available to help those who are suffering from their working conditions (especially if the problem is related to isolation).
      • Xevi 5y ago
        1. A lot of companies are shitty in a lot of ways. Your only option is to quit is you don't like them, and if you can't change them. There's plenty of companies that don't surveil their employees. I don't see it as an argument against working remotely. I could argue the same thing against working in an office. I don't want a manager dropping by every hour to make sure that I'm working. 2. I only mentioned online meetings because you mentioned meeting people. There's plenty of other ways to organize people online. Emails, chats, calls, issue trackers, etc.
• adgezaza 5y ago
  As a maker, I disagree. Collaboration with peers is much more organic and fruitful when in person. Not to say it isn't doable remotely but, his sounds more like a corporate culture issue.
• Svip 5y ago
  My perspective may well change in the future, but considering my home currently does not afford me the space for a home office, I am generally pleased with being back at the office. Getting on my wife's toes and vice versa have not been helpful for my productivity, and I can definitely feel an increase my productivity from returning to the office. Still, should I move to a home that would afford me a proper home office, I am likely to be doing more work remote. But not everyone necessarily have that luxury. Additionally, there may be some cultural differences to office culture that alludes me, as I have yet to meet people where I live (Copenhagen, DK) that dread going back to the office.
• p1necone 5y ago
  Can we stop this arrogance on both sides of this argument. Some people prefer working from home, some people prefer working in an office. The only viable solution is for there to be options for both groups (not necessarily at the same company).
• isoprophlex 5y ago
  That's some exquisitely deep fried web design, I love it! Also yes fuck going back to the office... full time. 1-2 days/week to refresh the old empathy bladder works best for me. Makes me remember my coworkers are actually human beings instead of talking heads/words on a screen.
  • smcl 5y ago
    Yeah it has a real Cruelty Squad vibe. I wonder if that is going to be a trend in the coming years
• vandahm 5y ago
  I like having a separate physical and psychological space for my personal and professional lives, and remote work deprives me of that. I like having the freedom to work from home, if I'm expecting a delivery or there's a problem with my car. But after working from home for an entire year during the pandemic, I'm ready to get back to the office.
• CamouflagedKiwi 5y ago
  So don't? Pick a company that allows remote working and enjoy that. You can think of it as two separate markets; one for remote work and one for (mostly) in-office work, with fairly disparate employees / employers in each.
• blowski 5y ago
  I'm nearly 40, and I love working from home. I've got a quiet house in the countryside, with good internet, a dedicated study. I get to see my family a lot more. I don't have much of a nightlife because I don't want one. But if I were 18 now, I'd probably be living and working in a small bedroom in a house I share with strangers. We'd argue that someone is bandwidth-hogging or playing loud music while I'm trying to do a code review with my boss. I'd want to be around people more experienced than me - learning the trade from someone is easier in person than through a video call. I'd want to experience city nightlife with my colleagues. As such, there's a bit of tendency for those of us who have already "made it" to want to work from home, while the next generation tends to want to work from an office. And even within those broad brush tendencies, there are lots of subtle differences. The idea that "I want to work from home, so surely everyone else does as well, and anyone that doesn't is an asshat" is stupid.
  • taylodl 5y ago
    There's an interesting conundrum: those who "made it" want to work from home while those who want to "learn the ropes" from those who "made it" want to work at the office. Someone is going to be unhappy with the outcome. My employer is taking a hybrid approach - you have to be onsite once every other week at a minimum or a maximum of twice a week. That allows them to reduce their overall facilities costs, ensure people are meeting face-to-face on a regular basis, and yet are mostly remote. It's been going well so far.
• jacksonkmarley 5y ago
  Ironically, I am going in to work every day at the moment because it's practically deserted and I get a whole office to myself. Also there's no queue at the cafeteria. Unfortunately, as people start returning the noise/interruption/lack of personal space level will inevitably rise and in the end I will probably start to miss working from home. Anyway I'm enjoying it while it lasts.
• invalidusernam3 5y ago
  "Let's start rewarding output and not the appearance or productivity" Guessing that is supposed to say "the appearance of productivity"?
  • fleekvanka 5y ago
    thanks for noting. just changed.
• guilhas 5y ago
  Fack fulltime remote work Where can I vote to have a good quality office? With free fruit and free lunch, flexible hours and work from home when I FEEL like it Thanks
  • scotty79 5y ago
    There's no free lunch.
• KaiserPro 5y ago
  This isn't a binary debate. There are some people who want to live in the office, there are some people that want to work entirely remotely. There are some people who want to work in bali or some other poor country that can be relentlessly exploited by rich westerners. There are some people who want to work 3 days a week in the office, others only 1. What pisses me off is there are a large number shouty types who insist on saying that remote "nomad" is the only way to work, any tech company that disagrees is a nazi or some shit. The truth is, partially remote is the future, but unless we fundamentally change as a species, and we outsource child rearing, fully remote/nomadic work life is a pipe dream
  • akmarinov 5y ago
    Partially remote is the worst of both worlds. Either go all in on an office setting or a remote one. Reasons are that office people want to be around people, which would be missing half the time, leading to them leaving to a more office friendly company eventually. At the other end, the remote workers will be treated to a business as usual environment where things happen more face to face and synchronously, leaving them out of touch with the work environment, which will inevitably lead to them leaving for a more remote friendly company. Pick one and stick with it.
    • xpil 5y ago
      I do not agree. I used to work on a hybrid basis for about 5 years (until Covid). It was approximately 40% from home and 60% on-site but the employer was flexible. Since Covid, I'm working 100% from home and while it has some advantages (commute time/costs, better work gear), I'm missing the hybrid model. The entire debate is futile though. Some employees / employers prefer WFH, some don't. Simple like that. To my understanding, as long as the job is done, up to standards, and within budgets, everyone should be happy no matter WFH or not.
    • KaiserPro 5y ago
      hybrid for me allows me to be a father, but also have some sort of office life. A lot of my colleagues are going this way. It allows them to have some deep focus time, but also have meeting times. Its clearly delineated too. Its not for everyone, but for parents, it can be good.
• mathverse 5y ago
  I hate commuting to the office but do you all live in quiet mansions/houses where there's very little noise around you?
• underseacables 5y ago
  How do FANNG folks with free lunch, child care, massages, etc feel about WFH? The major tech companies have gone overboard on the benefits, would those remain if more people wfh? What if they went away entirely, would that influence wfh?
• helmsb 5y ago
  I take issue with “Remote Work suits ‘Makers’ over ‘Managers’” I’m a manager and remote work suites me well. I’ve been a proponent and participator of remote work for years. I couldn’t care less where my teams work from as long as we meet our commitments (which has never been an issue). My job is not to tell them how or where to work. My job is to remove roadblocks, ensure they have what they need to do their job, and advocate on behalf of the team and each individual for their long term success.